Which dealerhip did you visit when you saw this V8 powered,

one passanger race car with 700 horsepower?

GM has 2.0 liter Ecotec 4 cylinders making 700 horsepower

in race cars (NHRA) that does not mean ANYTHING in an

argument about production cars.

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I think 68 he is talking about the 2006 F1 car which is a 2.4l V-8 and had about 760 hp.

The S2000 is lame

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7 years old and still leaving the Solstice/Sky in its dust. Even with the Turbo, the Solstice GXP comes up shy to the S2000's naturally aspirated acceleration. The s2000 is a hand-built, purpose-built, sports car. An old one at that. I hope it doesn't go the way of the NSX.

GM has 2.0 liter Ecotec 4 cylinders making 700 horsepower

in race cars (NHRA) that does not mean ANYTHING in an

argument about production cars.

Drag racing? Force-induced engines designed to run for less than 10 seconds at a time in a straight line? That's a far cry from a Formula 1 engine.

Racing technology/experience trickles down to production cars. Factory built race engines/cars have everything to do with production cars.

Edited December 13, 200619 yr by siegen

I noticed this the last time I was checking out these sites. Read the reviews. Look at all the dissastified camry customers. Granted they have a larger sample but its not going to be like that if this keeps up. Many claim to be jumping ship...the first rats off I suppose.

Consumer confidence and media portrayal are linked to some degree. Check the reviews of the products Gm gets right. The bias goes out the window. Even the mighty and venerable import humping CR seem to be waking up. Slowly perhaps but surely.

The bottom line is sub standard and inferior efforts are acknowledged. How this will affect something like the ridgeline is beyond me. I dont think a v8 will sell any more of them than they do already. Especially since its pricey to begin with.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview...ota&model=Camry

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview...da&model=Accord

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview...turn&model=Aura

http://autos.yahoo.com/toyota_camry/;_ylt=...vLTwGSOuyBXfb8F

http://autos.yahoo.com/honda_accord_sedan/...tFk.MMByKFZeb8F

http://autos.yahoo.com/saturn_aura/;_ylt=A...e87i6IpTWdsfL8F

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/saturn/aur...083/prices.html

GM is learning if you offer more you can charge more and you will find a market. When buying a car it usually doesnt come down to dollars and cents as much as it does dollars and sense, i.e. value for the perceived money spent in relation to what you are actually getting.

and the s2000 is lame. in more than one way

Edited December 13, 200619 yr by Mr.Krinkle

Several times in the past decade they have stood up on a

soapbox and preached down theior nose about how they

will never engage in manufacturing BOf vehicles, V8s or

oversized pickups.

Honda/Acura makes me sick.

All those ads in AutoWeek of F1 cars doign burnouts...

I'd love to see a production car from them that does not

suck like a Hoover... The S2000 is lame

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The S2000 is from 1999 and it's still a better car than its competition. The Solstice GXP/Sky Redline, and Mazdaspeed MX-5 are probably it's closest competitors and I'd take an S2000 any day, granted it is 33k though. As for never making a BOF, V8, or oversized pickup, they haven't done that at all yet.

They didn't think the V8 would be profitable but they never ruled out the possibility. It's not like Honda could predict the future, they thought that V8 sales would decline due to rising fuel costs and today fuel costs have somewhat decreased. Such a short memory about gas, remember when it was almost a dollar higher? Would you think a V8 was profitable if gas prices were that high and increasing?

Ridgeline as much as its hated is still V6, unibody with a ladder frame below it, and I doubt even you would call it oversized. Ugly yeah, but it definitely isn't huge by any means.

If Honda/Acura makes you sick then I can only wonder how you feel about Toyota or other car compaines in general as Honda is one of the better run car makers imo. Now its your turn to get off your own soapbox please, we get it you don't like Honda.

and the s2000 is lame.  in more than one way

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Elaborate please. :AH-HA_wink:

The S2000 is a marvel of engineering, especially it's engine.

Based on the stigma the S2000's engine has -- and my understanding of horsepower vs torque -- it can go really fast, but it can't tow a motorcycle.

It's basically a motorcycle with 4 wheels anyways

What's lame is your constant and baseless bashing of anything and everything Japanese.

227407[/snapback]

... while having a Nissan and an Infiniti in the driveway.

The S2000 is lame

227278[/snapback]

Have you ever driven an S2000?

Edited December 14, 200619 yr by Polish_Kris

Have you ever driven an S2000?

227495[/snapback]

Yes... Actaully I have taken about a half dozen

test drives in two seperate S2000s. One was a

gray 1999 with like 4,000 miles, got traded at

Bill DeLuca Chevroelt where I was working.

The second one was a white 2000 m.y. that

also had pretty low milage but was rusting like

an 1980s Subaru and yet it was less than 4

years old, the engine compartment was nasty,

peeling paint and rusty oxidation stains from

the rust leaking down the firewall & suspension

mount points.

I was told by the manager of the dealership to

"drive it like I stole it", keep the RPMs high etc.

which goes without saying. I did do QUITE a

nasty burnout in it at about 7500rpm but I

think the clutch got more abuse than the tires

since it's got like 7 lbs./ft of torque @ 9000rpm.

I try not to be biased or make assumptions

about cars based on country of origin etc. but

85% of the time when I drive Hondas or

Toyotas (and yes even a lot of Nissans too...)

they fell cheap, fragile, built for very small

people & too lightweight (not in a good way).

Just slamming the door on most Japanese cars

makes me think something will break, esp.

Hondas and small Toyotas.

Sure I love my Q45 but it's mostly because it

is as close to a RWD Park Ave as can be had

from a Japanese manufacturer.

Whatever... agree to disagree, I'm tired of

beating a dead horse, my opinion stands.

As to why Acura might be doing this...

It probably isn't because they "realize V8s are better", it is probably because the perception of them "being better", especially in the MDX and RL's market, is forcing their hand. They make V6s as good as many V8s, but as can be seen even from this board, a lot of people don't understand that. I know a guy who raves on about some Taurus SHO like it is the best thing since sliced bread (he is an older ford guy) because it has a V8... but it is significantly slower than the V6 yamaha(?) powered Taurus SHO that preceeded it.

That Acura does as well as it does with a largely FWD/V6 end-of-line car line-up is amazing. Now imagine what will happen next fall (or the spring after) when they have even better styling (if one can go by the next-gen accord sketch... time will tell), wider availability of SH-AWD, and Turbo 4s on the low end, 300+ HP V6s in the Mid, and 350-400HP V8s for the RL.

I hope they don't do much to the interiors, because they are already some of the best in my opinion. They also need to get a 6AT.

A SH-AWD 300HP V6 6SPD TL would be right on the top of my list of cars to shop for.

Edited December 14, 200619 yr by LTB51

The S2000 is a marvel of engineering, especially it's engine.

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yes, because of so many revs and so little torque.

Have you ever driven an S2000?

227495[/snapback]

Ive outdriven a couple of them. One in a Cavalier no less.

The real marvel of engineering is how the positraction in the rear end of a Plymouth works.

The writing is on the wall pretty much I think. Any Honda V8 is going to go in an Acura. Dont kid yourselves just yet.

Honda’s Motoatsu Shiraishi said the "S2000 has not been a success for us."

Im sure its a neat little car but it should be more i suppose. Anywhere else but on the track im sure its a bore...and a chore. Oh well. Keep at it.

A SH-AWD 300HP V6 6SPD TL would be right on the top of my list of cars to shop for.

227555[/snapback]

Funny, because that's pretty much what the RL actually is... unfortunately Acura wants $50k for what Infiniti & Lexus are charging $40k for.

It's basically a motorcycle with 4 wheels anyways

227378[/snapback]

You're absolutely right, the ugly Honda S2000 is pretty much

a motorcycle with four wheels. There's been a few of those

made over the years, this ugly, flimsy, East German POS was

the product of the failure of socialism & was also considered:

"basically a motorcycle with 4 wheels"

But it was still a piece of $hit in every single way... even as a

young kid growing up in Eastern Europe I made fun of these

crapboxes. They were very lightweight & got great fuel

economy from their 2-cylinder 2-stroke motors & "fiberglass"

bodies... I use the word fiberglass in a VERY loose sense...

if you ever kicked the fender it would tear like one of those

recycled cardboard drink holders from McDonalds, and I'm

not exagerating much. I swear those things were made from

recycled lunch trays by communist approved gulags.

So you see.... there it is, to me today's Hondas are the 21st

century version of Trabants, they're ugly, they have no torque

their sheetmetal feels like it's made of recycled junk, steel in

the Honda's case but it's not that much of an improvement

over the Trabant's body given the elapsed 30+ years in the

design/manufacture industry/technology.

Funny, because that's pretty much what the RL actually is... unfortunately Acura wants $50k for what Infiniti & Lexus are charging $40k for.

227648[/snapback]

HUBRIS.

yes, because of so many revs and so little torque.

227638[/snapback]

I've never driven one, but I've ridden in one..seem like a neat little sports car...though I think the new MX-5 has a nicer interior.

I try not to be biased or make assumptions

about cars based on country of origin etc. but

85% of the time when I drive Hondas or

Toyotas (and yes even a lot of Nissans too...)

they fell cheap, fragile, built for very small

people & too lightweight (not in a good way).

Just slamming the door on most Japanese cars

makes me think something will break, esp.

Hondas and small Toyotas.

Sure I love my Q45 but it's mostly because it

is as close to a RWD Park Ave as can be had

from a Japanese manufacturer.

Whatever... agree to disagree, I'm tired of

beating a dead horse, my opinion stands.

227549[/snapback]

Hah! That's hilarious.

Whatever happened to being late to the party?

If you truly believe the media is that influential you underestimate most people.  Or you just consider yourself too smart as not to fall for it. 

Maybe GM should bail on hybrids and continue to build giant V8's that not many people are buying.--except mostly in...what?  Trucks.

What would a media dance sound like anyway.  Im guessing tap because only the tango and shuffle have an identifiable signature to their sound.

227232[/snapback]

I hope your being sarcastic. The average car buyer does not have the knowledge that people on this site do. They look to magazines, edmunds, consumer reports etc. to provide them with information on buying a car. If you do not think that the media or those publications are Japanese bius than you have been living under a rock

I hope your being sarcastic. The average car buyer does not have the knowledge that people on this site do. They look to magazines, edmunds, consumer reports etc. to provide them with information on buying a car. If you do not think that the media or those publications are Japanese bius than you have been living under a rock

227799[/snapback]

ahhh, yes a calculated bias prone conspiracy the likes of which never before seen and designed to systematically and irrevocalbly destroy the US auto market stretching to the highest levels of....nevermind.

If you check the links i supplied youll see the clear evidence of bias and all the suckers that have been brainwashed. thats sarcasm. Check the links to see what im saying, you might be surprised

Ive always despised CR's "reporting" for instance. Lately however they seem to acknowledge the smooth powertrains and efficient 6 speeds GM is now using.

Some examples of their wording still irrate me however...The way I look at it now is this: GM has perhaps been brought down a little by them just to be brought back up...same goes for Toyota. Bias is just human nature. Initially they seem to have an interest in the lambdas too. Sometimes it really just takes a terrifly executed idea with the latest tech. or in some instances just the status quo to get peoples attention or change their minds.

Is it only me or can anyone else not wait until 2009 to see if the 2007 Toyota Camry is on the "used cars to avoid" list? that and for some other reasons.

Edited December 14, 200619 yr by Mr.Krinkle

Funny, because that's pretty much what the RL actually is... unfortunately Acura wants $50k for what Infiniti & Lexus are charging $40k for.

227648[/snapback]

Compare the features and you will find that the $44k GS and $41k M35 don't include a lot of features standard on the now $45k RL. Want AWD on either of those? Now you're spending $46k for the GS and $44.5k for the M35. Since the RL is such a dud sales-wise, you can get them for sometimes under 40k before taxes/etc. The RL really is a bargain, although not in a good way for Honda.

Compare the features and you will find that the $44k GS and $41k M35 don't include a lot of features standard on the now $45k RL. Want AWD on either of those? Now you're spending $46k for the GS and $44.5k for the M35. Since the RL is such a dud sales-wise, you can get them for sometimes under 40k before taxes/etc. The RL really is a bargain, although not in a good way for Honda.

227830[/snapback]

The new RL is a nice car but and nice to look at but seems to look a lot smaller than the previous version.

I know if I had to choose between the GS, M35 and RL I would go for the GS. It looks better than the M in my opinion and I like the rear wheel drive over the RL

V8s are to Acura as hybrids are to GM. Both don't "believe in them" but plan to make them anyway to appease consumers.

I liked the old RL much better, but it needed more engine. Maybe something like a S/C 3800 would have made it move better.