If Zeta were to come to North America in some form or another, which vehicles would you like to see be derived from the architecture? You only have until Model Year 2008 (so, release in late '07 at the latest). Lets hear it, and why would you do it?

How many are we allowed? AH-HA's seems about perfect if the vehicle is a sedan.

THe timetable is sale-able by MY '08. So, you figure how GM gets vehicles to production and go by what you feel is right.

Ok well since I doubt the GTO would be out by then, and probable not the Velite either: Camaro G8 Bel Air

Chevelle El Camino Invicta Bonneville (screw the G8 name, so far the Solstice and Torrent have foild Pontiac's latest move to alphanumerics) GTO or Velite If they can do a Camaro in under 3500 pounds, then add that to the list. Otherwise leave it off and wait for a "Kappa II" that'll support extended wheelbases and V8s without extensive modifications.

You only have until Model Year 2008 (so, release in late '07 at the latest).

[post="19641"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Technically, any MY08 vehicle can be sold to the public on Jan. 1, 2007, which is less than 18 months away.

He meant that the latest an 08 MY vehicle would/could be released would be late '07, not that it had to be released in late '07.

If Zeta were to come to North America in some form or another, which vehicles would you like to see be derived from the architecture?

Um.

Chevrolet Monte Carlo

(yeah, that was tough)

Chevrolet El Camino

...and why would you do it?

So I can do something I have yet to do ... buy my favorite car brand new.


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
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Chevy HVV6/SBV8 Monte Carlo-Impala-El Camino. Pontiac HVV6/SBV8 Grand Prix-SBV8 GTO. Buick HFV6/NSV8 Regal-NSV8 VeLite aka Riviera-NSV8 Roadmaster.

Ah-ha's list is perfect. Additionally, if we could get a Buick Roadmaster sedan in by that timetable, or after that, then perfect! So my list is: Impala Camaro G8 GTO Velite Roadmaster

I know GM has worked on all these models. Business cases have been made. Development and design work has been accomplished as well. They are feasible, and if GM would stop teeter-tottering around, they could get those to us soon enough.

Riviera (Velite, but with new name) Chevelle (Impala is a sales leader as FWD...keep it as such) Camaro G8 GTO Sceptre (Buick flagship)

Let make this realistic. Release date for first vehicle in 2009. More importantly, what vehicles will the rwd replace and what will be new models with projected volumes. Build a business and not pipe dream.

Total Zeta (2009) - 250k Camaro - 75k (in effect replaces MC) Bel Air - 100k (replaces nothing, placed above Impala and may steal some Impala sales) Grand Prix/G8 - 75k (replaces current GP) Then if they meet their goals, by 2012 or thereabouts we'd have: Total Zeta - 365k Camaro - 75k (in effect replaces MC) Bel Air - 100k (replaces nothing, placed above Impala and may steal some Impala sales) Grand Prix/G8 - 75k (replaces current GP) GTO - 25k (replaces current GTO) Velite sedan - 40k (replaces Lucerne) Velite coupe - 15k (takes spot left by Rivera departure) El Camino - 35k (in effect replaces SSR in lineup but priced much lower and is not a convertible). Prices would be: Camaro: $20-29k Bel Air: $27-35k Grand Prix/G8: $28-36k GTO: $32-37k Velite sedan and coupe: $29-41k El Camino: $22-32k Maybe an Infiniti FX style crossover here or there would be added somewhere along the line, but it would appear GM is going to have the crossover segment covered by the time any Zetas would arrive. Maybe the market will be shifting to that type of crossover by then, it would all depend. I really don't see the need for any more Zetas than what I've already listed unless you want to give Saturn one. And to be honest, I don't really see the need for a Velite coupe and GTO (one but not both), I just think Buick needs a halo like the Velite coupe would be. The Bel Air probably isn't really needed above the Impala if you just converted the Impala to Zeta, and 5 Chevy sedans could be hard to justify. It could make the Zeta business case easier to approve if the Impala was moved to RWD and had a projected volume of what it does now (250k+) which would definetly up the total Zeta volume a lot. Technically the El Camino isn't needed either, but it'd be relatively easy to just import the Ute from Holden and I think there is a niche market for it. A Bel Air coupe (or MC) could possibly be justified, but I think the Camaro and GTO should be able to handle the coupe segment. If it was really cheap to do then it would probably be a good addition for those wanting a bread-and-butter coupe but wanted something bigger than the Camaro and without a V8 (meaning they wouldn't want a GTO). Again though, unless it's cheap it wouldn't make good business sense. If the vehicles have to be saleable by '08 then most of these are probably not going to make it. I guess the easiest two would be the El Camino and a Grand Prix based on the Commodore (not the current one, the next one), and I think that the Camaro may be far enough along as well. The Camaro is not even on Zeta at this point from what I've heard, so it's possible that you would have to remove it from the list of Zetas.

Let make this realistic.  Release date for first vehicle in 2009.  More importantly, what vehicles will the rwd replace and what will be new models with projected volumes.  Build a business and not pipe dream.

[post="19727"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Evok...I truthfully tossed this out there to guage enthusiast feedback. But...IM me anyway http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

The responses are awesome though...I think this deserves A LOT of focus from around the 'net. It could carve the future of RWD inside GM. Something really really really tough to chew on right now considering their defense to RWD cars

Riveira Invicta Bonneville Camaro Firebird T/A

Chevrolet Caprice - sedan and coupe - $25,000 to $32,500 - will replace Impala LTZ and SS and all Monte Carlos - volume 125,000. I always liked the Chevrolet Lagunas from the mid 1970's - maybe use the Laguna name for the coupe. (Lower end Impala LS and LT would go to lwb Epsilon II and priced $22,500 to $27,500) Pontiac Grand Prix/GTO - sedan and coupe - $25,000 to $35,000 (no more alphanumerics for Pontiac) - volume 100,000 Buick Riviera - sedan, coupe, and convertible - $30,000 to $45,000 - volume 75,000 - replace Lucerne (LaCrosse goes to lwb Epsilon II) The Chevrolet and Pontiac models would use the fuel efficient 3.5L OHV V6 for the base models, 5.3L V8 for premium models, and 6.0L V8 for performance models. The Buick would use a 300 hp direct injection 3.6L HF V6 as standard, with 325 hp Northstar on premium models. The Chevrolet and Pontiac coupes would be about 195 inches long, the sedans would be about 200 inches long, and the wheelbase would be about 116 inches. The Buicks would be about 205 inches long, with a 120 inch wheelbase.

Chevrolet Camaro coupe/convertible

Chevrolet Caprice or Bel Air sedan and wagon

Chevrolet Monte Carlo

Pontiac Grand Prix or Bonneville sedan and wagon

Pontiac GTO coupe/convertible

Buick Riviera coupe/convertible

Buick Invicta sedan/wagon

spread over all those models and bodystyles and with the potential sales volumes packed into those model names as authentic versions of themselves, I see no reason why the platform wouldn't be a blockbuster for GM.

Velite
Impala
Camaro
G8
GTO

[post="19646"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The same except I would change from Impala to Caprice, as the current Impala in front-wheel drive form seems to be very popular.

Buick: Velite roadster Roadmaster sedan Pontiac: G8/Bonneville GTO Chevy: Caprice Camaro

What I'd like to see?

G6/GTO (midsize)

Invicta (mid-large)

SS-style Monte Carlo, 400+ hp Riviera and lwb Electra sedan(large)

G8 and GTO Camaro Impala Lucerne replacement, 4dr & 2dr The G8, GTO, and Camaro would be the first out. Pontiac needs the product and people are waiting for a Camaro. The big cars from Chevy and Buick, the Impala and Lucerene, just came out so they'd be last up for getting replacement cars on Zeta.

Lots of good replies already. How about a replacement for the Checker Marathon that has been mentioned in other threads lately. The sales to police departments and taxi owners who prefer rear wheel drive would gurantee a solid sale basis for the architecure thus guranteeing the business case.

i thnk it goes w/o saying, a Camaro and T/A and more a performance buick, say.... riviera, soiunds fine. caprice and el camino after a year or two. and then mainly make the wagons, coupes, converts, of the models that could have them.

Obviously Buick needs firsts how can you be the division that tows the line and gets nothing new until last ? Riviera 2dr hardtop, with a long wheelbase 4dr sedan - whatever, not sure on a name then the remain two FWDers need to combine into a new space effecient cabin and trunk, midsize that can still sell at Lacrosse price - without hubcaps Then Pontiac needs its full size sedan back and GrandPrix would go on same new midsize FWD as above Buick. I dont see GTO as much huge importance when they now have the Soltice sports car, G6 Coupe/conv. and are lacking the compact or commuter car they need for sales. After all there is not that much to go around. sacrifice must be made. Look at it like this - GTO-low production nitch car Solstice-low production nitch car G6 coupe/conv.-low production nitch car they cant have it al and they do need their large sedan and their small transport for sales. Let us not forget we also have various "trucks" in these lines too. Whats left ? well certainly not saturin we are now making modern full size RWD Buicks and Pontiacs in the old saturin plants and saturins Kappa went to Buick in a more expensive fully standard optioned turboed Buick [ but thats another topic] So now I suppose Chevy could get its BelAir and a Camaro which will do what successfully what GTO was supposed to. It will be its own car not a rebadged/faced Holden. So thats it, no super stacking the lines up, just enough to go around Buick-1coupe,1sedan Pontiac-1sedan + that little starter car Chevy-1coupe, 1sedan Buick comes first, enough is enough

There's not enough platforms for what I want... But if I had to... GTO Grand Prix Could care less about other brands...

In my mind, these Zeta cars would be the "thesis" or the "definition" for the divisions these cars represent. I believe it would be great to see: -MY 2010 Bel Air (replace Impala after phase-out): This will be THE Chevrolet. Boldly styled, beatifully executed. Detailed, plush interior. Although this would be slightly more expensive than the Impala, consumers would find an increased value: better packaging, transmissions, power, sportier handling, and better material quality. Ideally, this would be the perfect product that Chevy has failed to deliver for so long... -MY 2009 Pontiac G8 (replace Grand Prix) Again, this will be the definitive Pontiac. Although this will take place of the Grand Prix, it will be geared to a more affluent consumer. Ideally, this would offer the ride, handling, and build quality of a BMW 5-series for a fraction of the price. Additionally, these value-conscious buyers will find better acceleration, increased passenger and cargo room, and a LOT better styling :P -MY 2009 Buick Velite (addition to lineup of LaCrosse, Lucerne, and Centieme) A four seat hardtop convertible with signature Buick styling (preferably more original than the Velite concept as well as more engaging). Unlike most four seat convertibles, this will offer back seat room aplenty. Primary competitor: Lexus SC, but priced lower. -MY 2010 Chevrolet Camaro A fresh design with some retro touches. Cheap base engine (3.9L), powerful V8. Consumers will find that the well styled interior isn't just something to look at: materials will be top notch (cough, Mustang). A MY 2011 convertible will be soon to follow. So, off the top of my head, there's where I woul start.

Chevrolet Camaro (coupe/convertible) Impala (sedan) Caprice replaces FWD Impala Monte Carlo (coupe) Pontiac G8 (sedan) GTO (coupe) Buick Velite (sedan/coupe/convertible) Flagship (sedan) SUV SAAB 9-7 (sedan) 9-8 (SUV)

G-8 - Pontiac has to have something Caprice - Basically Chevy equals Volume Monte Carlo- For what it and its Market are Zeta is the Fit. GTO- Shares platform With Monte Carlo 1 plant LGR style (multiple Bodies styles per line ) 350k Max capacity. I don't Believe in altering a Formula that is Succesfull. So I would Keep Impala Dimesionaly(sp?) , Layout,and price as close as possible to the Current formula. PHAT and stretched EP2 or Chi.

Since Chevy is no.1 sellar at GM. start with Chevelle coup ,saden and wagon, next Camero. Leave Impala fwd.

Edited September 26, 200520 yr by Chevysnumberone

Velite
Impala
Camaro
G8
GTO

[post="19646"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hey AH-HA,

Is this purely what you'd like to see, or is there any reason to believe this is a likely Zeta lineup?

Thanks,

-RBB

Hey AH-HA,

Is this purely what you'd like to see, or is there any reason to believe this is a likely Zeta lineup?

Thanks,

-RBB

[post="20181"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This is the most likely senario:

Belair in addition to the Impala. (I can go both ways on this one. I have a tough time rationalizing GM moving the Impala to rwd. Too much volume to throw to the wind with a radical departure for a traditional, conservative market.)
Chevy coupe to replace the Monte (call it what you want)
Station Wagon aka Magnum
G8
GTO
Buick to replace Lucerne

Built in Oshawa 2.

Oshawa 1 may move to EpsII

LWB Impala and Buick Lacrosse

GM closes D-Ham

Cadillac will probably replace the DTS with the BLS for NA.

Edited September 26, 200520 yr by evok

Camaro, GTO, G8 (i.e: large Pontiac sedan; I personally wouldn't call it G8) and Buick Roadmaster. That's a great mix of product... enough to definitively prove that RWD can still succeed and be appealing in the marketplace. In reality, though, a Camaro alone would take up all the spare volume Holden has, and then some.

razoredge: Thank you for your logic in giving Buick some product first.

evok:Thank you for steering us closer to reality, with what is most likely.

As for me, I wish that Buick would revert to some of its most cherished nameplates:

sted Lucerne: name the vehicle either Roadmaster or Electra or Invicta
sted Velite: Riviera
sted Rendezvous: Estate Wagon
sted LaCrosse: hmm... Skylark? Century? even LeSabre?
and find something to use Wildcat on, too - whether a trim line or high-performance version of one of the above

Other than Riviera, which is a classic Buick model, no more French or Swedish names. If Buick is among the makes with the most tradition and heritage, go for broke with big, American, Buick styling, using lots of chrome and curves. This is not nostalgia talking... I want a completely modern (better-than-ever)competitive Buick, with strong Buick traits and visual cues.

GTO(coupe) G8 (sedan)

My thoughts (trying to stay in the realm of the plausable and likely): I'm visualizing a Chevy sedan (Caprice)--aimed at the police market and RWD sedan market, and a sporty coupe (Camaro). Not sure about the Monte Carlo--will it remain FWD with the Impala? I see this RWD sedan coexisting with the FWD Impala (it's a big seller) and being at the top of the Chevy sedan line. For Pontiac, a RWD G8 sedan to replace the Bonneville & Grand Prix (though I'd rather see it have one of those names, 'G8' seems inevitable), and the next GTO coupe. A sport wagon version of the G8 to compete with the Magnum would be great. For Buick, a top of the line RWD luxury sedan above the Lucerne...I'd call it 'Electra'. (a luxury coupe and convertible or coupe/convertible called Riviera would be great also).

evok: Would the station wagon be a Pontiac most likely if it's going against the Magnum? Also, the Camaro would be on it's own platform, correct?

evok:

Would the station wagon be a Pontiac most likely if it's going against the Magnum?

Also, the Camaro would be on it's own platform, correct?

[post="20355"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Don't know for certain yet, but what I listed is the most logical vehicles. As for the wagon, I loved the 1999 Nomad concept and I have ranting for years here that I thought that would have been a break through car for them. But Dodge beat them to it. I think wagons will make a come back and the Magnum shows there is a decent size market for that sort of vehicle. Last Feb when I posted that Camaro Sigma thing I also said they should produce the Nomad to get added volume off the platform. Just my thoughts.

Edited September 26, 200520 yr by evok

Huh. evok, I'm surprised no mention of a Riviera/Velite. I was almost certain that was in the cards.

Belair in addition to the Impala. (Chevy coupe to replace the Monte (call it what you want)
Station Wagon aka Magnum
G8
GTO
Buick to replace Lucerne

Oshawa 1 may move to EpsII

LWB Impala and Buick Lacrosse

Cadillac will probably replace the DTS with the BLS for NA.

Seems pretty close to my ideas, except for the station wagon and some of the names. I hope Bel Air is just the project name and not the name of the car. Bel Air brings back memories of stripped down big Chevy sedans of the 1960's, with vinyl interiors, inline sixes, and three on the tree transmissions. Also I really don't want to see the G8 name used.

Seems pretty close to my ideas, except for the station wagon and some of the names.  I hope Bel Air is just the project name and not the name of the car.  Bel Air brings back memories of stripped down big Chevy sedans of the 1960's, with vinyl interiors, inline sixes, and three on the tree transmissions.    Also I really don't want to see the G8 name used.

[post="20408"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thing is, most younger people think Bel Air and envision the ever-popular tailfinned '57 convertible, so who knows.

Agreed about G8. Its a sportsedan, not a multinational organization.

I like the Bel Air name, and think the Tri-5s have the more recognized image and positive connotation. G8 blows. Pontiac blows. I wish Buick or Chevrolet would get another Zeta in lieu of another for Pontiac. I mean let's be honest, is there a more schizophrenic lineup than Pontiac? Cheap, stripped down cars, and then a GTO and G8? At least Chevrolet has SS and LTZ for all/most of their nameplates so the performance Corvettes and Camaros wouldn't be THAT much of a stretch...

Last Feb when I posted that Camaro Sigma thing I also said they should produce the Nomad to get added volume off the platform.  Just my thoughts.

[post="20372"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Some things come full circle don't they, evok?

Huh.  evok, I'm surprised no mention of a Riviera/Velite.  I was almost certain that was in the cards.

[post="20391"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Add two doors and make the Velite the Lucerne replacement. I do not see a demand for another 2+2 coupe/convertible in the $35k segment. How many would they sell in an already saturated coupe market.

The only reason why I would keep the GTO is because I assume it would be a global program. Otherwise I see no need for it.

Plus if GM ever decides to make a CTS coupe, where would that go in the larger portfolio. The Velite makes no sense when I look at the big picture. That is unless they can figure out how to make the Velite global and share the body with an Opel.

Edited September 27, 200520 yr by evok

I think a Trans Am (not the Firebird name) would make a good GTO replacement actually. If the GTO isn't going to be here for a long time (which if it's going to be global it seems like it would be as Holden just started Monaro work I believe) then it might make sense to make a Trans Am for Pontiac and basically make it V8-only and on the Camaro's platform. Basically it would be an uplevel Camaro. Also, is the wagon the Nomad?

I think a Trans Am (not the Firebird name) would make a good GTO replacement actually. If the GTO isn't going to be here for a long time (which if it's going to be global it seems like it would be as Holden just started Monaro work I believe) then it might make sense to make a Trans Am for Pontiac and basically make it V8-only and on the Camaro's platform. Basically it would be an uplevel Camaro.

Also, is the wagon the Nomad?

[post="20461"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

NS: I am just speculating like everybody else. No twists here. I want to get to the bottom of this just like everybody else.

Don't know for certain yet, but what I listed is the most logical vehicles.   As for the wagon, I loved the 1999 Nomad concept and I have ranting for years here that I thought that would have been a break through car for them.  But Dodge beat them to it.  I think wagons will make a come back and the Magnum shows there is a decent size market for that sort of vehicle.  Last Feb when I posted that Camaro Sigma thing I also said they should produce the Nomad to get added volume off the platform.  Just my thoughts.

[post="20372"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Maybe they could even do an AWD version to rope in a few lost SUV sales.

I like the idea of a modern day Bel Air, the name has positives connotations. But they better do it right if they do it.

FOG: I don't think many people would give up an SUV for an AWD car/coupe/wagon. If anything, it would be for a crossover, which is practically an SUV anyway.

Edited September 27, 200520 yr by Croc

Velite
Impala
Camaro
G8
GTO

[post="19646"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

thats ok

Hmm...if the Monte Carlo is gone again (not that they really are making it now anyway), I wonder which Chevy will get the nod for NASCAR ... or if, perhaps, another GM nameplate will pick up the NASCAR entries.....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'