I just seems like it is taking forever to dump these barges.

I can't wait 'til the last one rolls of the line, I think I'll pop open a bottle of champagne.

What's the next oldest car platform after these?

I can't wait 'til the last one rolls of the line, I think I'll pop open a bottle of champagne.

I will be crying in my beer when that happens.

Sorry, but I'll be grinning ear-to-ear while you sob. I really hate those cars.

I don't hate them.... but they're dated and outclassed these days.

To me they are the rolling reminders of the bad old days at GM, and I can't wait for that era to pass into oblivion.

I don't hate them.... but they're dated and outclassed these days.

Christ, I'm almost 38 years old, I'm dated, but my wife is not kicking me out!

Christ, I'm almost 38 years old, I'm dated, but my wife is not kicking me out!

well *someone* has to date you..... might was well be her.

well *someone* has to date you..... might was well be her.

Don't Hate!

What's the next oldest car platform after these?

As far as GM, probably the G-body..goes back to the '90s?

Read "All Corvettes are Red". During the 90s GM kept pumping money into the W-body program despite every one of the cars failing in the marketplace. The Corvette team hated them with a passion. Me: I've driven three of them - a 90 Lumina, a 00 Intrigue, and a 06 LaCrosse. The Olds and Chevy were owned by my dad, and are two of the most reliable cars he has ever owned. They are vault-like and unflappable on the road, and take whatever you throw at them. I don't have a hatred for the W-bods, and am actually fond of quite a few of them. However, since their demise means that Oshawa can retool for Zeta, I'll gladly attend any W-Body Retirement Party.

I've driven a number of W rentals from Enterprise and Avis over the last decade, from Luminas and Regals to an '06 Impala, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix...they were ok... comparable to the Tauruses I've driven from Hertz.

My favorite FWD sedan rentals over the last decade were probably the '99 and up Intrepids, 300Ms, Concordes, and LHSes...

These cars are what GM used to "replace" most of the GM cars I actually liked, and for two decades I've had to look at them.

Yup, I hate them, and can't wait to see them go to that great salvage yard in the sky.

That's it Mister I will take the 15 minute ride up to your house with a W body caravan an circle your property!

That's it Mister I will take the 15 minute ride up to your house with a W body caravan an circle your property!

He'll be able to slip out under the front overhang of any of those cars though.... :AH-HA_wink:

He'll be able to slip out under the front overhang of any of those cars though.... :AH-HA_wink:

It's only a 5 hour ride to your house mister! I'll give you overhang!

It's only a 5 hour ride to your house mister! I'll give you overhang!

tease

Camino... I'll gladly join you for a party when they cease production.

Camino... I'll gladly join you for a party when they cease production.

Will your Japanese Ford make it to Eastern PA?

That's it Mister I will take the 15 minute ride up to your house with a W body caravan an circle your property!

Good!

My Silverado is hungry.

Will your Japanese Ford make it to Eastern PA?

It's not a Ford, it's just owned by Ford.

And yes, it would.

The W-Body should have died in 1999. The only thing that I can name off of the top of my head that is older would be a Panther car from the folks at Ford.

It's not a Ford, it's just owned by Ford.

And yes, it would.

because I'd tow it behind the Avalanche.....

I don't hate the W-Body. My dad has had two in the past decade: a 2000 Impala and a 2002 Grand Prix. He still has the GP. I've driven both. They are good cars.

Will I miss the W bodies? Only if nothing better comes out from GM to replace them. So no, probably not.

What's the next oldest car platform after these?

G-body. Introduced in 1993/94 for the 94/95 model year.

It'll be a true shame when the G-bodies go away. These are the the pinnacle of fullsize front-wheel drive from chassis rigidity to the sheer goodness of the individual cars that rode them.

I just seems like it is taking forever to dump these barges.

I can't wait 'til the last one rolls of the line, I think I'll pop open a bottle of champagne.

Camino, come on now! At a quarter of a million miles (soon approaching), my W-body is the best car I've ever owned. At each oil change, the oil comes out full...and gold. My tranny fluid remains a clear bubble-less pink. What more can one ask for?

Ending production dates, to the best of my knowledge:

Monte Carlo - May 2007

Grand Prix - December 2007

LaCrosse and Impala - the entire 2008 MY and possibly a little "hangover" after that, depending on the when the replacements (G8 and such) start rolling.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Man, there's some hardcore pwnage going on! BV and Pontiac got

I will not miss the W-bodies...the only one I like is the previous gen Grand Prix...that's about it. The Impala look alright but I'd never choose it over the more modern cars out there (except a Camry). Let us hope that Zeta becomes the basis for the next Impala and Bush chokes on his stupid CAFE proposals.

Edited April 16, 200718 yr by Dodgefan

I'm sorry Bob, I just can't love these cars.

because I'd tow it behind the Avalanche.....

You would do that for me? Aww... Thanks. I'm glad I wouldn't have to fill it up with premium just to burn it all up on a road trip.

Sign me up for the festivities as well! While I don't harbor anything against them (everyone I know who's owned one says that they're pretty reliable), I will gladly be the one to pull the trigger so Zeta can take over Oshawa.

The W-bodies are not and never have been "bad". They are just now out of date and out of style. For the good of GM, GM needs to move on.

The W-bodies are not and never have been "bad". They are just now out of date and out of style. For the good of GM, GM needs to move on.

Agreed. However, since I am in a transition mode (relocation and job/career), I want to snag one last W-body with a 3800 V6 so I can hopefully get through the next 5 years without as much as having to think about the car and what's under the hood.

(zsa zsa gabor voice)

Vell hello Zeta dahling, I've been vaiting for you... :AH-HA_wink:

The old W-bodies should be the most reliable cars on the road, after all the money that's been thrown at them over the decades. They were shadows of the G-bodies they replaced, so foreign and different when they debuted, so small and puny. At the end of their run, they are the best they've ever been, but still not quite what GM needs. I am ready for a brand new RWD revolution for larger GM cars, in fact, it can't come soon enough.

What are some of our favourite W-bodies over the years?

First-gen Lumina Euro coupe and sedan

MCE Cutlass Supreme coupe and convertible

MCE Grand Prix coupe DOHC 5 speed (pre '97)

'97-'03 Grand Prix GTP coupe and sedan

last-gen Regal GS

Regal GS coupe 3800

current Grand Prix GXP

current Impala SS

current Monte Carlo SS

These all come close, but no cigar. Dead reliable, yes, truly exciting...no. They're Wrong Wheel Drive. They've killed the casual enthusiast because they're so difficult to modify.

Question for decade's end: is it too late for GM to win back people who appreciate true American cars? People who've turned to trucks to hold on to the feel of American cars of yore? I hope and pray it's not too late. Zeta baby, come to papa!

(zsa zsa gabor voice)

Vell hello Zeta dahling, I've been vaiting for you... :AH-HA_wink:

The old W-bodies should be the most reliable cars on the road, after all the money that's been thrown at them over the decades. They were shadows of the G-bodies they replaced, so foreign and different when they debuted, so small and puny. At the end of their run, they are the best they've ever been, but still not quite what GM needs. I am ready for a brand new RWD revolution for larger GM cars, in fact, it can't come soon enough.

What are some of our favourite W-bodies over the years?

First-gen Lumina Euro coupe and sedan

MCE Cutlass Supreme coupe and convertible

MCE Grand Prix coupe DOHC 5 speed (pre '97)

'97-'03 Grand Prix GTP coupe and sedan

last-gen Regal GS

Regal GS coupe 3800

current Grand Prix GXP

current Impala SS

current Monte Carlo SS

These all come close, but no cigar. Dead reliable, yes, truly exciting...no. They're Wrong Wheel Drive. They've killed the casual enthusiast because they're so difficult to modify.

Question for decade's end: is it too late for GM to win back people who appreciate true American cars? People who've turned to trucks to hold on to the feel of American cars of yore? I hope and pray it's not too late. Zeta baby, come to papa!

These cars are what GM used to "replace" most of the GM cars I actually liked, and for two decades I've had to look at them.

Yup, I hate them, and can't wait to see them go to that great salvage yard in the sky.

*chuckles*

And I thought I was unhappy with these cars . He he.

I dislike 'em for the FWD and for what Chevrolet has done to the nameplates ... using RWD names for FWD cars ... arg. malibu, monte carlo, impala and nova ... basically your Corsica, Lumina coupe, Lumina sedan, and Toyota, respectively ... and not what they claimed to be .

Cort:33swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

PICS:lego.HO.model.MCinfo.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

my radio show:CD SHOWCASE.7:30p central.Friday/April 20 = www.wrmn1410.com

hmm the "Caprice" is still pure.

but all hatred aside the W bodies sold millions and supported the company in a half ass way while it failed.

So the W-body

Probably for its life span a mild success. I know let me hear it...

The W-bodies were dated when they were introduced in 1987. They were never bad cars, but there has always been something more desirable. They're a relic from the bad old days of GM.

What are some of our favourite W-bodies over the years?

No Intrigue on the list?

The most recent W-Body I've sampled is the current Grand Prix, specifically a base '05 rental.

The car was solid and rattle-free, but it just reeked of cheepness. Interior quality was shoddy, the engine sounded terrible under acceleration, it just felt like the cheesy rental car it was. I find it impossible to see the appeal behind such a dated, outclassed package. Really, it was like driving something out of the mid 90s.

Consumers know there are better choices out there. It's time for something better.

Well, I know people have lots of love for the high-performance RWD G-bodies the W cars replaced, but lets not forget it wasn't all peaches and cream, specifically the ass-ugly wagons and sedans with fixed rear windows.

Or the V6 powered G-bodies with 110 horsepower. Or the Caprice/Impalas with the 229 V6. RWD isnt everything. I liked my 2000 Monte Carlo while I had it.

Yeah, I had an '81 Grand Prix new with the 110 hp 231... not exactly a neck snapper... but I'm still a fan of the whole package. The powerplant was just a part of that, a primitive attempt at fuel efficiency.

Technology was lacking back then, and GM was in a panic to increase efficiency. The only thing that worked for them, I guess, was to downsize, nee, gut every single platform they produced here in the USA. Every single time they did it, the cars that emerged were less impressive than what came before.

I will argue that the '77 B,C and D bodies, '78 A bodies and '79 E bodies were the only successful downsized GM vehicles in terms of appeal to the customer. The X-cars were oddballs. The J-bodies were a mixed bag. FWD A-bodies, ugh. The C- and H bodies and '85 E bodies, too dramatic a change from what came before. These cars contributed to the downfall of GM, a downfall that is still haunting my favorite car company. Misstep after misstep chipped away at their once dominant position in the market. This is why I believe FWD ruined GM.

Since then, the FWD G body, Delta and Epsilon have been much improved platforms over previous iterations, don't get me wrong.

It's now almost 30 years after the start of this dramatic downfall, with the Spring '79 X-car debut. Bob Lutz wants to return GM's larger cars to RWD. Every single person who cares about GM and their future should support this initiative. It is of the utmost importance for GM, for the domestic auto industry, and for the country, that all of us support this plan. It is like dawn emerging after a 3 decade night.

I am not asking for 400 hp V8s in every single Zeta and Alpha platform car, but I want that option, along with everything from 2.8/3.6L, Ecotec, to diesel and hybrid availability. The inherently natural feel of a RWD chassis, along with the utmost in modern powertrain choices, are critical to GM's true renaissance, in my opinion.

...but then why did the previous generation Camaro/Firebird implode so spectacularly at the end? GM was selling around 10% of what they did in their heyday. We could not give away the Camaro in its last couple years - literally. We sold our last two UNDER cost. They handled and peformed great. They looked good. NObody up here wanted them. (Well, they were a little over-priced, IMO, but Canadians with $35k to spend would rather drive a FWD Infiniti.)

I owned a '91 Caprice wagon that I factory ordered. Great car. Again, the sales numbers were dropping. If all this RWD hype is true, then the Caprice should have been a stellar seller.

I will forgive GM the '80's because everone built crap. Where the wheels truly fell of the cart was when the trucks took off and GM/Ford lost interest in their FWD cars. Eleven years with the Cavalier, anyone? Toyota and Honda improved their small and mid-sized FWD cars, while GM and Ford counted their money with their Blazers and Explorers.

There will never be a return to the '60s. Every time I see a re-run of Adam-12 or any of those old shows, I am more interested in watching the background so I can see all those big, beautiful American cars - without a Datsun or Toyota in sight. I feel the pain, boys and girls, but the reality is much different.

But that was then. This wierd, sudden horsepower race that reared its ugly head in the past 5 years or so has annoyed me, frankly. When the marketing mandarins are mandating 250 hp minivans, someone has lost their marbles. GM needs to refocus on small and midized cars, pick ups and vans. Make those funto drive and "must have vehicles." GM has lost the PR war to Toyota, plain and simple. No amount of RWD vehicles is ever going to change that.

Hell, Buzz Hargrove, the CAW leader, went on a tirade the other day about how many Canadian (read: union) jobs are going to be lost due to Washington's new rules, then guess what the CITY-TV Auto Shop opened with? That's right, the expert attacking GM and Ford for their adherance to gas guzzlers.

The most recent W-Body I've sampled is the current Grand Prix, specifically a base '05 rental.

The car was solid and rattle-free, but it just reeked of cheepness. Interior quality was shoddy, the engine sounded terrible under acceleration, it just felt like the cheesy rental car it was. I find it impossible to see the appeal behind such a dated, outclassed package. Really, it was like driving something out of the mid 90s.

Consumers know there are better choices out there. It's time for something better.

Sadly, the 1999 Intrigue out classes a 2005 GP in terms of interior and refinement.

Well, I know people have lots of love for the high-performance RWD G-bodies the W cars replaced, but lets not forget it wasn't all peaches and cream, specifically the ass-ugly wagons and sedans with fixed rear windows.

I actually like some of those wagons, but the fixed windows were absurd. And, it wasn't just performance models that I remember fondly, the Cutlass Supreme was once the sales leader in this country. When GM abandoned these cars for the likes of the Celebrity, it was the start of terrible things to come.

Damn it! these relics need to pass away - NOW.

Well, I know people have lots of love for the high-performance RWD G-bodies the W cars replaced, but lets not forget it wasn't all peaches and cream, specifically the ass-ugly wagons and sedans with fixed rear windows.

Yeah, I can barely remember the RWD G sedans and wagons... it's only the coupes I remember--MC,GP,Cutlass Supreme, Regal.

I've never understood the love for the G-bodies the W-bodies replaced. Sure there were the Buick GNs and the Hurst Olds, but 97% of the G-bodies sold were "your father's Oldsmobile". I'll admit to a certain love for the final RWD Cutlass coupes... and though I'd never own one, I do admire and respect the GNX... but for the most part these were soft handling, floaty, solid rear axle cars. A 1995 DOHC Cutlass Supreme Coupe would completely pwn a 1985 Cutlass Coupe. A 2007 Monte Carlo SS would wipe the floor with an SS from the 80s. The only G-body that would beat it's modern successor <in a straight line> would be the GNX, and with Lacrosse Super coming, that point might even be debatable.

Yeah, the W-bodies are dated.... but going back to the G-bodies, I think some of you have selective memories.......

I've never understood the love for the G-bodies the W-bodies replaced. Sure there were the Buick GNs and the Hurst Olds, but 97% of the G-bodies sold were "your father's Oldsmobile". I'll admit to a certain love for the final RWD Cutlass coupes... and though I'd never own one, I do admire and respect the GNX... but for the most part these were soft handling, floaty, solid rear axle cars. A 1995 DOHC Cutlass Supreme Coupe would completely pwn a 1985 Cutlass Coupe. A 2007 Monte Carlo SS would wipe the floor with an SS from the 80s. The only G-body that would beat it's modern successor <in a straight line> would be the GNX, and with Lacrosse Super coming, that point might even be debatable.

Yeah, the W-bodies are dated.... but going back to the G-bodies, I think some of you have selective memories.......

Not at all, while the drivetrains were anemic ( GN excepted) all of the parts were in the right places and the proportions worked. The drivetrains are easily upgraded to whatever level you choose as is the handling. The FWD stuff that followed may as well have had a warning sticker saying "No user serviceable parts inside" slapped on them. These cars will live on in modified (and in some cases restored) condition, treasured by their owners. Whereas the W body will rightfully be recycled.

Not at all, while the drivetrains were anemic ( GN excepted) all of the parts were in the right places and the proportions worked. The drivetrains are easily upgraded to whatever level you choose as is the handling. The FWD stuff that followed may as well have had a warning sticker saying "No user serviceable parts inside" slapped on them. These cars will live on in modified (and in some cases restored) condition, treasured by their owners. Whereas the W body will rightfully be recycled.

The S/C 3800 available in oh so many of these W-bodies was upgradeable with something as simple as a S/C pulley swap. There are plenty of performance mods for the 3800 and even some for the 3.4 DOHC. Many of the W-bodies <all?> have fully independent suspensions and the inherently better ride/handling characteristics that accompany such. We poo-poo on 4-speeds today, but a lot of the lower G-bodies were 3-speeds!

Again, while I do have my favorites on both platform, waxing poetic about the "good ol' days" of either of these is using selective memory. They were competitive for their day but are completely out classed today.... by GM's own platforms.

I've never understood the love for the G-bodies the W-bodies replaced. Sure there were the Buick GNs and the Hurst Olds, but 97% of the G-bodies sold were "your father's Oldsmobile". I'll admit to a certain love for the final RWD Cutlass coupes... and though I'd never own one, I do admire and respect the GNX... but for the most part these were soft handling, floaty, solid rear axle cars. A 1995 DOHC Cutlass Supreme Coupe would completely pwn a 1985 Cutlass Coupe. A 2007 Monte Carlo SS would wipe the floor with an SS from the 80s. The only G-body that would beat it's modern successor <in a straight line> would be the GNX, and with Lacrosse Super coming, that point might even be debatable.

Yeah, the W-bodies are dated.... but going back to the G-bodies, I think some of you have selective memories.......

True enough... but the GM 10 coupes were no great improvement over the G's, IMHO...the wierd beer-tap door handles, the wierd seatbelts (attached to the doors), ugly interiors, wierd proportions, etc.