June 2, 200718 yr May 2007 Sales: Toyota Motor Sales Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported all-time best-ever sales of 269,023 vehicles for the month, an increase of 9.7 percent over May 2006. The former all-time best-ever record was 242,675 units in March 2007. "As fuel prices and consumer confidence rose, the industry saw a move to passenger cars, with retail business posting sharp gains over a very challenging April," said Jim Lentz, TMS executive vice president. "Despite the industry's shift toward passenger cars, Toyota's all-new Tundra hit an all-time high in May. As for hybrids, the market's appetite continues unabated, with Prius also establishing an all-time record." The Toyota Division posted all-time best-ever sales of 237,176, up 10.9 percent over last May. The Lexus Division reported best-ever May sales of 31,847 units, an increase of 2.1 percent. Toyota Division Toyota Division passenger cars recorded all-time best-ever sales of 148,327, an increase of 12.7 percent over last May. Passenger car sales were led by Camry, which posted best-ever May sales of 50,126, up 11.8 percent over the same period last year. Camry Hybrid reported sales of 6,853 units in May. The Prius hybrid gas-electric mid-size sedan posted all-time best-ever sales of 24,009, an increase of 184.9 percent over May 2006. The Yaris subcompact reported an increase of 30.5 percent, posting best-ever May sales of 10,949 units. Corolla reported all-time best-ever sales of 45,238 units, an increase of 4.7 percent over the year-ago month. Toyota Division light truck sales were up eight percent, with a best-ever May total of 88,849 units. Light truck sales were led by the RAV4 compact sport utility vehicle (SUV), which reported best-ever May sales of 16,547, up 13.5 percent over the same period last year. The all-new Tundra full-size pickup reported all-time best-ever sales of 17,727, an increase of 113.8 percent over the year-ago month. Highlander and Highlander Hybrid posted combined May sales of 11,991, up 6.7 percent over the same period last year. The Highlander Hybrid gas-electric mid-size SUV reported sales of 3,312 units for the month. FJ Cruiser reported May sales of 4,639 units. Scion posted May sales of 11,570 units. The tC sports coupe led the way with May sales of 6,615 units. The xB urban utility vehicle posted sales of 3,658 units for the month. Lexus Division Lexus passenger cars reported best-ever May sales of 19,943 units, an increase of 4.8 percent over May 2006. Passenger car sales were led by the ES 350 luxury sedan with May sales of 8,572 units. The all-new LS 460 and LS 460 L reported combined sales of 3,196, an increase of 183.2 percent over last May. Combined sales of the IS 250 and IS 350 posted all-time best-ever sales of 5,722 units, up 19.5 percent over May 2006. Lexus Division light trucks reported May sales totaling 11,904 units. The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined best-ever May sales of 9,798 units. The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,746 units for the month. TMS Hybrids TMS calendar-year-to-date hybrid sales totaled 119,154 units, an increase of 75 percent over the same period last year. In May, TMS posted sales of 36,101 hybrid vehicles, up 102 percent over last May. Toyota Division posted sales of 34,174 hybrids, up 121 percent over the same period last year. Lexus Division posted sales of 1,927 hybrids. There were 26 selling days this month, as compared to 25 selling days last May. TOYOTA RETAIL SALES (INCLUDES FLEET & HAWAII) May, 2007 -- CURRENT MONTH -- -- CALENDAR YEAR TO DATE -- DSR % DSR % 2007 2006 CHG 2007 2006 CHG YARIS 10,949 8,065 30.5 37,367 15,797 134.7 COROLLA 45,238 41,550 4.7 165,722 159,992 2.8 CAMRY 50,126 43,112 11.8 193,900 177,090 8.6 AVALON 6,435 7,646 -19.1 31,861 38,428 -17.7 PRIUS 24,009 8,103 184.9 76,747 38,460 98.0 SCION xA 1,297 3,927 -68.2 8,096 14,421 -44.3 SCION xB 3,658 6,763 -48.0 13,331 25,411 -48.0 SCION tC 6,615 7,413 -14.2 27,041 30,071 -10.8 TOTAL TOYOTA DIV. PASS. CAR 148,327 126,582 12.7 554,067 499,695 10.0 ES 350 8,572 9,554 -13.7 33,166 24,944 31.9 LS 460 3,196 1,085 183.2 14,941 5,702 160.0 SC 430 410 593 -33.5 1,705 2,556 -33.8 GS 350 1,854 1,940 -8.1 8,219 9,578 -14.9 GS 430/450h 189 516 -64.8 928 1,724 -46.6 IS 250/350 5,722 4,605 19.5 22,494 22,485 -0.7 TOTAL LEXUS PASS. CAR 19,943 18,293 4.8 81,453 66,989 20.6 TOTAL TOYOTA PASS. CAR 168,270 144,875 11.7 635,520 566,684 11.3 SIENNA 12,837 13,102 -5.8 60,569 67,404 -10.8 RAV4 16,547 14,013 13.5 72,447 61,811 16.3 FJ CRUISER 4,639 6,670 -33.1 25,271 15,103 66.0 4RUNNER 6,908 8,888 -25.3 37,938 46,219 -18.6 HIGHLANDER 11,991 10,806 6.7 53,496 50,921 4.2 LAND CRUISER 205 257 -23.3 1,078 1,397 -23.4 SEQUOIA 1,967 2,575 -26.5 10,896 14,414 -25.0 TOTAL SUV 42,257 43,209 -6.0 201,126 189,865 5.1 4X2 TACOMA 9,728 9,098 2.8 45,568 42,906 5.4 4X4 TACOMA 6,300 5,744 5.5 31,559 28,963 8.1 TOTAL TACOMA 16,028 14,842 3.8 77,127 71,869 6.5 TUNDRA 17,727 7,974 113.8 61,113 48,636 24.7 TOTAL PICKUP 33,755 22,816 42.3 138,240 120,505 13.8 TOTAL TOYOTA DIV. LT TRUCK 88,849 79,127 8.0 399,935 377,774 5.0 LX 470 264 471 -46.1 1,330 2,463 -46.4 GX 470 1,842 1,901 -6.8 8,658 9,972 -13.9 RX 350/400h 9,798 9,334 0.9 39,892 43,631 -9.3 TOTAL LEXUS LIGHT TRUCK 11,904 11,706 -2.2 49,880 56,066 -11.7 TOTAL TOYOTA LIGHT TRUCK 100,753 90,833 6.7 449,815 433,840 2.9 TOTAL TOYOTA DIV. 237,176 205,709 10.9 954,002 877,469 7.9 TOTAL LEXUS 31,847 29,999 2.1 131,333 123,055 5.9 TOTAL TOYOTA 269,023 235,708 9.7 1,085,335 1,000,524 7.6 MEMO: DOM. COROLLA 40,904 34,434 14.2 147,800 139,253 5.3 DOM. CAMRY 42,476 36,712 11.3 158,268 154,188 1.8 DOM. PICKUP 33,755 22,816 42.3 138,240 120,505 13.8 DOM. RX 350 7,259 6,159 13.3 28,532 26,828 5.5 SELLING DAYS 26 25 127 126 TOYOTA DIV. IMPORT CAR 58,512 47,790 17.7 216,138 167,826 27.8 LEXUS IMPORT CAR 19,943 18,293 4.8 81,453 66,989 20.6 TOYOTA DIV NA BUILT CARS 89,815 78,792 9.6 337,929 331,869 1.0 TOTAL TOYOTA CARS 168,270 144,875 11.7 635,520 566,684 11.3 TOYOTA DIV. IMPORT LT TRUCK 40,290 40,634 -4.7 190,230 175,451 7.6 LEXUS IMPORT LT TRUCK 4,645 5,547 -19.5 21,348 29,238 -27.6 TOYOTA DIV NA BUILT LT TRUCK 48,559 38,493 21.3 209,705 202,323 2.8 LEXUS NA BUILT LT TRUCK 7,259 6,159 13.3 28,532 26,828 5.5 TOTAL TOYOTA LT TRUCK 100,753 90,833 6.7 449,815 433,840 2.9 SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES 49,522 48,245 -1.3 225,735 230,828 -3.0 Memo: Lexus Sport Utility 11,904 11,706 -2.2 49,880 56,066 -11.7 SMALL VANS 12,837 13,102 -5.8 60,569 67,404 -10.8 PICKUPS 33,755 22,816 42.3 138,240 120,505 13.8 * NORTH AMERICAN BUILT VEHICLES COROLLA 40,904 34,434 14.2 147,800 139,253 5.3 CAMRY 42,476 36,712 11.3 158,268 154,188 1.8 AVALON 6,435 7,646 -19.1 31,861 38,428 -17.7 SIENNA 12,837 13,102 -5.8 60,569 67,404 -10.8 PICKUP 33,755 22,816 42.3 138,240 120,505 13.8 SEQUOIA 1,967 2,575 -26.5 10,896 14,414 -25.0 RX 350 7,259 6,159 13.3 28,532 26,828 5.5 TOTAL 145,633 123,444 13.4 576,166 561,020 1.9 N.A. VEHICLES % OF TOTAL 54.1% 52.4% 53.1% 56.1% SELLING DAYS 26 25 127 126 DSR = DAILY SELLING RATE [source: Toyota Motor Sales]
June 2, 200718 yr Isn't Toyota just the all-time bestest car company evar?? They only say all-time best-ever 7 freakin times. Get over yourself Toyota.
June 2, 200718 yr Corolla is such a garbage car. Its a wonder why people continue to be suckered into buying one.
June 2, 200718 yr zero down, $169.00/month...they don't care what it is...but you are right; 'tis a $h!box.
June 2, 200718 yr I was driving by the Des Moines airport the other day and the Hertz lot had quite a few Corollas...hmm.... How else would a car that hasn't had a significant update since 2002 increase 4,000 units for the month at the end of its lifespan? I think there's more going on than just "Toyota magic."
June 2, 200718 yr In related news, my ass had it's BE$T_3V4R month, but was unable to spew out as much crap as Toyota.
June 2, 200718 yr For all those that doubted (even though I am not happy about it) Tundra is selling this month on pace to 200k this year. I do see an awful lot of them!
June 2, 200718 yr For all those that doubted (even though I am not happy about it) Tundra is selling this month on pace to 200k this year. I do see an awful lot of them! It must depend on the area...I've seen 5 so far VS 20+ GMT-900 trucks
June 2, 200718 yr I've seen a whole whopping 2 '07 Tundras here in Iowa, both of them in Des Moines (and I have done a ton of driving back and forth between home lately).
June 2, 200718 yr Some of these figures strain the bounds of credulity—they cannot possibly represent real retail market penetration. Nearly double (treble for the Prius) January sales? I'm sorry but something fishy is going on here.
June 2, 200718 yr i honestly see no tundras here. the increase to me is puzzling. yaris? my. corolla sucks. but yes, it's all the incentives for corolla and camry. scary numbers though. i have seen many new prius. fair enough on that one. with all the good cars out there, there is no reason for toyota to be making such gains like this. no matter how good the cars may be. they are dumping a lot into rentals though...fact. i always see many cor/caml at the hertz lot here. we'll see what happens with the 'legendary resale' when those things end up at auction. toyota is going for broke. incentives, fleets, shortcuts in development. give them credit for seizing the day. i guess it beats a seized sludged up motor. Edited June 2, 200718 yr by regfootball
June 2, 200718 yr I actually have not seen one single tundra. But I am happy to report huge amounts of GMT-900's being spotted around the So-Cal region...
June 2, 200718 yr The increase in tundra sales is understandable—it's a new and vastly improved product. But Yaris? From a steady 6-7K to nearly 11K in a single month? That screams dumping. Corolla—an old, outdated model on it's last legs—to go from around 30K +/-3K to over 45K in a single month? They're dumping them somewhere. Camry? OK it's new, but sales were a steady 30-40K, to jump to over 50K in a single month? Yeah right, they're dumping them. Prius? OK fuel prices may be helping, but so are incentives. Nearly double the previous month's sales is not a normal market variation. RAV4 I can believe—sales of these light crossovers have been strong and if anything the RAV4 has been lagging the CRV most months when it is probably the better vehicle. Highlander, OK it's old, but sales are not fantastic and within the normal range, even it is a nice bump over last year. LS series? New and much more competitive, and still a bargain. Sales are steady, nothing unusual there. IS? a nice bump, but a competitive product and some is due to the whole segment doing well this month. Obviously trying to claw back second place from the new C-Class, mostly at the expense of midsize luxury cars.
June 2, 200718 yr OK it's new, but sales were a steady 30-40K, to jump to over 50K in a single month? Yeah right, they're dumping them. Suburu plant began producing Camries last month Prius? OK fuel prices may be helping, but so are incentives. Nearly double the previous month's sales is not a normal market variation. it's nearly triple
June 2, 200718 yr The increase in tundra sales is understandable—it's a new and vastly improved product. But Yaris? From a steady 6-7K to nearly 11K in a single month? That screams dumping. Corolla—an old, outdated model on it's last legs—to go from around 30K +/-3K to over 45K in a single month? They're dumping them somewhere. Camry? OK it's new, but sales were a steady 30-40K, to jump to over 50K in a single month? Yeah right, they're dumping them. Prius? OK fuel prices may be helping, but so are incentives. Nearly double the previous month's sales is not a normal market variation. RAV4 I can believe—sales of these light crossovers have been strong and if anything the RAV4 has been lagging the CRV most months when it is probably the better vehicle. Highlander, OK it's old, but sales are not fantastic and within the normal range, even it is a nice bump over last year. LS series? New and much more competitive, and still a bargain. Sales are steady, nothing unusual there. IS? a nice bump, but a competitive product and some is due to the whole segment doing well this month. Obviously trying to claw back second place from the new C-Class, mostly at the expense of midsize luxury cars. You know that some greenies now want Hertz et, al. to carry Hybrids? Guess which car it is. The Prius. The Cavalier and the Neon in the Rental Parking lots in Orlando are replaced by Crapollas, and the Impala is taken over by the Crapries. I drive right by the Orlando Int. Rental Car Places to work, and the amount of Toy vehicles in those parking lots is frightening. It is like a patient with acute diarrhea dumping fecal matter.
June 2, 200718 yr Lotta bitterness flowing through this thread. Toyota is about to blow by Chrysler and, probably, topple Ford as #2 in this country. Why not just give credit where its due? I don't get how 'I haven't seen too many' is a valid counterpoint to what everyone here seems to feel are incredible #'s. Stop by a Toyota dealer and try to buy one of their recent intros....I'm fairly certain you'll see these figures are not only accurate, they're understandable. What people on this board fail to understand that MOST people do not want risk associated with their new car purchase. Toyota has been masterful in creating a quality reputation (deserved or not) that takes the worry out of the decision. You can't top that when MOST (not us) treat their cars as appliances. Edited June 2, 200718 yr by enzl
June 2, 200718 yr Yeah. Like he said. Somebody needs to stop picking on Toyota. Right now. Just ignore the Toyota-filled rental lots. It will make the rest of this much easier. No more mention of sludged engines. No more exploding camshaft stories. If Toyota want's to disable pickup safety features rather than fix the problem, that's none of our business. No more articles about groping Toyota executives. Oh what a feeling. It doesn't matter that around 50% of Toyota's vehicles are imported, Toyota is still better for the economy. Even when your friends and neighbors lose their jobs at the GM plant, they can still buy a used Toyota. And no more ridicule for poorly-selling trucks. Everybody got that? Hopefully this puts this matter to rest for good.
June 2, 200718 yr Some of these figures strain the bounds of credulity—they cannot possibly represent real retail market penetration. Nearly double (treble for the Prius) January sales? I'm sorry but something fishy is going on here. Just this morning I got an "informational" email from Toyota. Especially notice the Prius rental fleet inclusion. More good news for consumers was the announcement that production increases have made Prius available immediately at virtually all the nation's Toyota dealers. Additional Prius are also being added to the Toyota Rent a Car fleets at Toyota dealers nationwide. At these 900 dealerships, customers may rent and test-drive a Prius for a full day or more before deciding on a purchase. <snip> Toyota revealed new pricing with substantial savings on "ECO-nomic Savings" packages of optional equipment and features. The savings range from $600 to $2000, and will be in place indefinitely
June 2, 200718 yr What people on this board fail to understand that MOST people do not want risk associated with their new car purchase. Toyota has been masterful in creating a quality reputation (deserved or not) that takes the worry out of the decision. That is very true. Most people make most decisions in life to pick the safest choice, not the best. I think that this is particularly important for some of the younger posters to realize when they go on a job interview. The HR guy is more likely to be impressed with your perfect attendance certificate from the fifth grade than your dean's list accomplishment.
June 2, 200718 yr Yeah. Like he said. Somebody needs to stop picking on Toyota. Right now. Just ignore the Toyota-filled rental lots. It will make the rest of this much easier. No more mention of sludged engines. No more exploding camshaft stories. If Toyota want's to disable pickup safety features rather than fix the problem, that's none of our business. No more articles about groping Toyota executives. Oh what a feeling. It doesn't matter that around 50% of Toyota's vehicles are imported, Toyota is still better for the economy. Even when your friends and neighbors lose their jobs at the GM plant, they can still buy a used Toyota. And no more ridicule for poorly-selling trucks. Everybody got that? Hopefully this puts this matter to rest for good. Sour grapes. That's what it sounds like....IMO
June 2, 200718 yr I would really, really like to see a retail vs. fleet breakout of these numbers. As indicated, some defy common sense and even market trends.
June 2, 200718 yr I have never seen a New Turdra on the road, they seem to have had the same Turdras at the dealer that I drive by everyday. I see tons of GMT-900's Are Toyotas sales figures vehicles delivered to acvtual customers or just vehicles delivered to vehicle lots. Edited June 2, 200718 yr by chevelle454
June 2, 200718 yr I saw about a dozen Tundras on the road today, so, as has been established before, you really cannot go with what you see in your particular area.
June 3, 200718 yr I would really, really like to see a retail vs. fleet breakout of these numbers. As indicated, some defy common sense and even market trends.fleet is clearly up. Common sense would dictate that a withdrawal of the Detroit 3 would result in others filling the supply.I was actually fairly impressed with GM's monthlies...The new product (other than Saturn's, which I think may just be a matter of marketing) is moving and, hopefully, the old stuff will continue to hold its own.
June 3, 200718 yr Sour grapes. That's what it sounds like....IMO Exactly. Picking on Toyota is unAmerican.
June 3, 200718 yr Exactly. Picking on Toyota is unAmerican. No, its just tired, intellectually dishonest and the latest in a long line of apologist nonsense. Like a wife defending the husband that abuses her, it rings false.They won this round. We lost. Time to move on to the next fight.
June 3, 200718 yr ...Ford looks like it will be the real looser here. G.M. seems to be doing well around here, but the midwest has always been more of a domestic stronghold. Chris
June 3, 200718 yr No, its just tired, intellectually dishonest and the latest in a long line of apologist nonsense. Like a wife defending the husband that abuses her, it rings false. They won this round. We lost. Time to move on to the next fight. Criticising Toyota is not tired. Criticising Toyota is not intellectually dishonest. It's actually quite refreshing. Especially considering GM's newfound rennaisance. Intellectually dishonest would be the Toyota apologist, like Freidman and perhaps yourself, that somehow claims Toyota is better for our economy. When nothing could be further from the truth. Just one tiny example - General Motors is the single largest provider of health care in this country. Apologist would be condoning a company that refuses to fix an acknowledged air bag defect, but is instead ready and willing to disable that safety equipment all in the name of greed and profit. Why don't you put your younger son or daughter in that front seat. It's Toyota so it must be safe right? Apologist would be blaming vehicle owners for a sludge problem. Three million owners must be wrong, inconsiderate, fat and lazy. Apologist would be sweeping under the rug exploding cam shafts in a new vehicle or hybrid vehicles that suddenly stall on the highway. Unfortunately for your perspective, the media finally seems willing to criticize some of Toyota's bad habits. And none too soon at that.
June 3, 200718 yr Criticising Toyota is not tired. Criticising Toyota is not intellectually dishonest. It's actually quite refreshing. Especially considering GM's newfound rennaisance. Intellectually dishonest would be the Toyota apologist, like Freidman and perhaps yourself, that somehow claims Toyota is better for our economy. When nothing could be further from the truth. Just one tiny example - General Motors is the single largest provider of health care in this country. Apologist would be condoning a company that refuses to fix an acknowledged air bag defect, but is instead ready and willing to disable that safety equipment all in the name of greed and profit. Why don't you put your younger son or daughter in that front seat. It's Toyota so it must be safe right? Apologist would be blaming vehicle owners for a sludge problem. Three million owners must be wrong, inconsiderate, fat and lazy. Apologist would be sweeping under the rug exploding cam shafts in a new vehicle or hybrid vehicles that suddenly stall on the highway. Unfortunately for your perspective, the media finally seems willing to criticize some of Toyota's bad habits. And none too soon at that. You're new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack.I'm not going to rebut your argument with a list of domestic makers transgressions, but suffice it to say that the key for GM (Ford or Chrysler) is to get off the mat and continue fighting. (If you go back far enough, every major conglomerate on the planet has done something you or I would consider disnhonorable...check your history.) ...You're making the mistake of looking through a rear-view mirror, rather than looking down the road. All of your points (and valid, they certainly are) have been made, with exhausting repetition. I'm not apologizing for anyone, just stating the facts, sir.
June 3, 200718 yr You're new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack. I'm not going to rebut your argument with a list of domestic makers transgressions, but suffice it to say that the key for GM (Ford or Chrysler) is to get off the mat and continue fighting. (If you go back far enough, every major conglomerate on the planet has done something you or I would consider disnhonorable...check your history.) ...You're making the mistake of looking through a rear-view mirror, rather than looking down the road. All of your points (and valid, they certainly are) have been made, with exhausting repetition. I'm not apologizing for anyone, just stating the facts, sir. My member number is lower then yours, so I'm going to cut you some slack. </pompous ass> It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability. I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to. Edited June 3, 200718 yr by Oldsmoboi
June 3, 200718 yr My member number is lower then yours, so I'm going to cut you some slack. </pompous ass> It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability. I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to. DITTO
June 3, 200718 yr My member number is lower then yours, so I'm going to cut you some slack. </pompous ass> It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability. I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to. DITTO
June 3, 200718 yr It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. How mant 6AT Camrys were affected by that issue? How many of them ones being sold right now are affected by that issue? How many Impalas are affected by the 4AT "issue"? The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability. I've found it interesting how many people on this board have started saying that GM has matched Toyota's reliability. Toyota seems to be slipping, but as of 2006 they are still #1. GMC is #14, Buick is #18, Pontiac #20, Chevy is #21, Saturn #30, Cadillac #31, and Hummer #34. (Out of 36). Buick makes some very reliable cars (Lucerne and LaCrosse), but that doesn't change the fact that the solstice, cobalt and uplander (for example) are the worst possible vehicles in their category. GM has made some good strides, especially in this segment, but they haven't caught Toyota in reliability. Even if they had, there are still a number of good reasons to buy a Camry. I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to. Car reviews don't often focus on reliability. They drive the vehicle for a short period and then give it back. They talk about the vehicle itself (e.g. If the transmission went on the Camry they were driving, I bet they would mention it. But they aren't going to mention a handful or early transmission failures that have since been addressed.). Even in the example you gave above, they were talking about the car in general, not the reliability of the car. It isn't just Toyota... I'd be surprised if there are a lot of reviews that end with "The Cobalt is an average car, but this very model is the most unreliable car in its class." I think you are fighting a battle over something that doesn't happen often while waiting for an end condition that will never happen. And if you got your way the GM cars would come out looking worse as not only are the old models usually unreliable, the new ones continue to trail in reliability in virtually all situations.
June 3, 200718 yr How mant 6AT Camrys were affected by that issue? How many of them ones being sold right now are affected by that issue? How many Impalas are affected by the 4AT "issue"? Because there is nothing wrong with GM's 4-speed. There are some instances where a 6-speed is really needed but the Camry/Impala segment isn't one of them. I've found it interesting how many people on this board have started saying that GM has matched Toyota's reliability. Toyota seems to be slipping, but as of 2006 they are still #1. GMC is #14, Buick is #18, Pontiac #20, Chevy is #21, Saturn #30, Cadillac #31, and Hummer #34. (Out of 36). In what list? Hummer being #34 makes me think this is a Consumer reports list. You know that one of the major "issues" with the Hummer is gas mileage right? Yes Virginia, people report gas mileage on their Hummer as an "issue". I know that Cadillac is pulled down because of the 3.2 litre CTS engine that they don't even sell anymore. Buick makes some very reliable cars (Lucerne and LaCrosse), but that doesn't change the fact that the solstice, cobalt and uplander (for example) are the worst possible vehicles in their category. That's like saying "The Prius and Corolla are clean environmentally, but the Land Cruiser and 4Runner are the worst polluters in their category".... oh.. wait... woops, that one is true. Solstice aside because there is only one other non-GM in it's category. We know that Uplander is a dead man walking and I'm leary of the Cobalt's numbers from CR anyway. There are still vehicles like the Impala, Aura, G6, LaCrosse, Lucerne <no 4-speed OR 6-speed failures>, GMT-900s <no snapping camshafts>. Lambdas <no steering wheels falling off>, etc etc etc. GM has made some good strides, especially in this segment, but they haven't caught Toyota in reliability. Even if they had, there are still a number of good reasons to buy a Camry. I'm not saying there aren't good reasons to buy a Camry. I'm saying that the Camry's issues in the past <sludging 4-cylinders, failing 6-speeds> don't get published, while Impalas "issue" of a fully functional, smooth, reliable 4-speed gets harped on constantly. Car reviews don't often focus on reliability. They drive the vehicle for a short period and then give it back. They talk about the vehicle itself (e.g. If the transmission went on the Camry they were driving, I bet they would mention it. But they aren't going to mention a handful or early transmission failures that have since been addressed.). Even in the example you gave above, they were talking about the car in general, not the reliability of the car. bullox! BMW's 3-series had major mechanical failures during C/D's test drive comparison and they STILL said it was the best. It isn't just Toyota... I'd be surprised if there are a lot of reviews that end with "The Cobalt is an average car, but this very model is the most unreliable car in its class." Reviewer's snide, anti-domestic, comments are well documented in this forum.
June 4, 200718 yr Whenever I get an import humper in our show room, rather than getting into an argument I point out that our sister Toyota store's service department is MUCH bigger than ours and it is never empty That at least diffuses the argument and usually gets a smile. I believe that more and more people WANT to like GM again, and given the right push they will look at them. I have even had a few people remark about the negative press and wonder if something isn't up. I believe the tide is slowly turning. GM's recent releases have been more than decent entries. Toyota's foibles have been getting a bit of recognition, and I also believe the media is very fickle and largely vindictive. Once a few of their Lexus and Hondas start to blow up, they will turn on Japan Inc. like a pack of rabid dogs. I, for one, am not worried that GM has fallen from 35%+ market share in the decade that I have worked here. They had nowhere else to go but down. Every car manufacturer on Earth has made it their personal mission to attack the North American market. It is interesting to note that neither Toyota or Honda have the same appeal anywhere else, nor has their assault been as vigorous and relentless as here. Kind of makes one wonder, eh?
June 4, 200718 yr drive an aura xr and you quickly get why 4 speeds and pushrods are not sufficient. Camry with a 4-banger and 5-speed is better? The Aura XE is meant for those who would buy a CamCord 4-cylinder auto, NOT the V6. As such, it performs it's job just fine.
June 4, 200718 yr Camry with a 4-banger and 5-speed is better? The Aura XE is meant for those who would buy a CamCord 4-cylinder auto, NOT the V6. As such, it performs it's job just fine. I would much rather have the XE have the 2.4 and six-speed. The people buying 4-cyl Camcords don't care about the extra power, and would much rather trade it for improved fuel economy, something they get in the 4-cyl Camcords.
June 4, 200718 yr Carbiz & Olds_ Since its apparently your job to counter my every post, this pompous ass would like to thank you for the effort. Don't worry...I'll eventually get sick of being undermined with hysterical half truths and lame excuses of dubious merit. Here's my reply to both: When the 30 years of crap is made up for by 10 solid years of quality and technical superiority....then I'll back off. Until then, people like you only serve to undermine GM's absolute need to improve. If you honestly think that what GM is producing, across the board, is better, than fine. But face the fact that people are not only going to disagree, they might occassionally be right!
June 4, 200718 yr You're new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack. I'm not going to rebut your argument with a list of domestic makers transgressions, but suffice it to say that the key for GM (Ford or Chrysler) is to get off the mat and continue fighting. (If you go back far enough, every major conglomerate on the planet has done something you or I would consider disnhonorable...check your history.) ...You're making the mistake of looking through a rear-view mirror, rather than looking down the road. All of your points (and valid, they certainly are) have been made, with exhausting repetition. I'm not apologizing for anyone, just stating the facts, sir. You and I both know that GM is fighting back; in fact, it is fighting for its life - with one arm tied behind its back! Everyone is only too well aware of the mistakes GM has made. People like you make it your mission (grudge? axe to grind?) to make sure that we NEVER forget. Locally, we have the largest newspaper in Canada, the Toyota Star, that still buries Toyota's transgressions in the Business section, while throwing every fart or hiccup that GM or Ford make on the front page. You love to throw your resume around with an air of superiority, when your resume and mine are really no better than most. You are trapped by what you see in your local environment, as I am in mine. I deal with customers, suppliers, wholesalers, etc. and do occasionally tap into what is happening at our Toyota store, so that would give me slightly better knowledge than the average person - at least my anecdotal evidence is based on hundreds of examples, rather than a few! But I understand and appreciate that my sampling is greatly skewed because what is happening in Toronto is not normal for Canada, which again is not normal for the U.S. But I do think I have some advantage because of exposure to our Toyota brand. I admit that I don't like Japanese vehicles, nor do I like German vehicles. I was never raised on them; would never want to own one. Yes, my biases are definitely pro-domestic, although I used to own nothing but Chrysler's. I had two horrible experiences with Dodge in the '80's, but do I go around slagging Chrysler because of that? No. In fact, when one of my customers starts bitching about their friend/neighbor/co-worker/butcher's Chrysler minivan's tranny blowing up, I challenge them on that. Oh, it was a '99 Voyager. Are Chrysler's like that now? No. Adapt and change, I say. GM has done that, but the media is merciless to the point that it borders on propaganda. GM's newer products are leagues ahead of what they are replacing. Are they all class-leading? Of course not, but then neither is anything from Toyota. But why do apologists jump all over GM because the Impala is not this, or was not that? Instead, some people like to nitpick the $h! out of what the domestics have to offer, based largely on their own preferences, not what the average person would want. Does anyone give a $h! about "overhangs?" Would they even know what the hell that is? Not unless some self-appointed expert pointed it out. What about soft plastics? I get behind the wheel of an Impala and I am just fine with the lack of P-D-R-L and other "oversights." I don't like the Camry at all. Those are my opinons. But what happens when some import humper, disguised as a journalist gets out of his BMW and gets behind the wheel of the Impala? So, Enzl, you are free to point out every single failing of GM and tsk tsk the rest of us for gloating about Toyota's, but remember that some of us may get a little testy because we are so sick of hearing that Toyota can walk on water every day in the press, with our neighbors and elsewhere and forgive us wanting a little peace and respite on C&G
June 4, 200718 yr Carbiz & Olds_ Since its apparently your job to counter my every post, this pompous ass would like to thank you for the effort. Don't worry...I'll eventually get sick of being undermined with hysterical half truths and lame excuses of dubious merit. Here's my reply to both: When the 30 years of crap is made up for by 10 solid years of quality and technical superiority....then I'll back off. Until then, people like you only serve to undermine GM's absolute need to improve. If you honestly think that what GM is producing, across the board, is better, than fine. But face the fact that people are not only going to disagree, they might occasionally be right! I have stated no opinion on which make is better. Again, my issue is with what is in the media. It's the snide comments from reviewers in regards to the domestics while those same reviewers white wash any import problems. There have been reviews in 2006 that still mention the Vega as if it's relevant!! It's the reviews where the BMW has major mechanical failures yet still wins the number one spot. It's the media's harping on GM's smooth and reliable 4-speed while making no mention of the "silent recall" Toyota and Honda have on their 6-speeds and 5-speeds respectively. It's the harping on pushrod V6s that arguably give you more bang for your buck than the imported 4-cylinders while also forgetting to mention the substantial sludge problem Toyota has been dealing with. Now... I'm not saying that GM hasn't had it's issues, but GM issues, even minor ones, end up being front page headline news while Toyonda issues are published in the back page of the classifieds where they offer "massage with release".
June 4, 200718 yr I'm not sure what b-pages you guys are reading, but Toyota's recent foibles have been laid out for all to see. AS far as Media Bias goes, I believe most here make the 'overreacting' mistake that has it's closest parallel to someone calling your significant other a 'pig'. You want to punch the guy who uttered the statement in anger...I can understand that feeling. The essential problem is that GM is a pig. She/he might be getting lighter through diet (laying off workers), working out (great individual programs like the 900's) or getting effective counseling (Lutz?), but at the end of the day, the truth is out there for all to see. The serial mistakes of the previous administrations at GM are a price that must be paid. I am not a Toyota fan...I respect their blind determination and drive, and I believe, unlike others, that this kind of zeal must be met with equal force. I don't consider the Aveo, Cobalt/G5, HHR, Impala, Malibu, any Buick short of the Enclave, the small Pick-ups or a number of other offenders more than average efforts. I think GM must be pushed harder and react faster or MORE jobs will be lost, less profits will be made and the likelihood of failure rises dramatically. Media Bias, IMO, is an excuse for every deficiency GM's products have...I drive these cars, all the time. You aren't going to convince me that the Cobalt is in the same league as the Civic or that the LaCrosse is a demonstrably better product than the Camry. They just aren't and the negative press is there because the product isn't up to speed. YOU can believe what you wish, you can opine on what you'd like. I respect your opinions, even if I believe they are wrong. And, BTW, the only reason I ever made claims about what I do for a living was in response to people here questioning my credibility or my angle on things. Trust me, GM's renaissance is completely in my best interest...I just hope those that disagree with me will allow my continued participation here. Edited June 4, 200718 yr by enzl
June 4, 200718 yr As I drive by local gas stations and see the price is over $3.00 a gallon, I know one reason why Camry, Corolla, Yaris and Prius are doing so well. People will drive almost anything that gets good gas mileage, no matter if it is outdated and homely, eccentric, an overrated MPG hybrid or the most popular car in the country.
June 4, 200718 yr I'm not sure what b-pages you guys are reading, but Toyota's recent foibles have been laid out for all to see. I have yet to see edmunds report about the camshaft failures. I'm partly siding with Oldsmoboi on this....there is so much bias in the media, not just towards GM but Domestics in general. Example: They'll be happy to take a shot at how the new Focus looks but say nothing bad about the hideous concepts that may become the next Prius. -- Still, it's not a 100% bias rate. We've noticed that the Vue and Lambdas are getting good reviews, and that the Aura beat the Camry for Car of the Year. This is proof that if you build an excellent product, there's a good chance they'll give it a good review. However that doesn't stop some rags like Motor Trend of taking $h!s at say, the Enclave.
June 4, 200718 yr there is so much bias in the media, not just towards GM but Domestics in general. Example: I tend to believe its media stupidity and herd mentality more than biasis. Just my opinion.
June 4, 200718 yr I tend to believe its media stupidity and herd mentality more than biasis. Just my opinion. A little of column A, a little of column B.
June 4, 200718 yr I didn't get to read through all of this, but did anyone mention all of the Toyota "Pull Ahead" letters that went out? It was mentioned in another topic. Maybe this is a response to them?
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