Jetting around

By Bob Lutz | GM Vice Chairman | Link to Original Post @ GM FastLane Blog

Thursday night out at the Oakland County Airport I had the pleasure of helping Saab USA General Manager Steve Shannon introduce the Saab 9-7X Aero and 9-3 at the welcome reception of the Meadow Brook Concours d’Elegance.

As you know, Saab was “born from jets,” so I flew my Aero L-39 ZO “Albatros,” a demilitarized Czech-built fighter jet once used by the Libyan Air Force, from Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti to Oakland County for the occasion. Then, to benefit Meadow Brook Hall, we auctioned off a ride in the jet. So I’ll be piloting Eastern Michigan University aviation student Phillip Von Donop for a ride in the Albatros, thanks to his dad’s winning bid.

As I told the folks there, although I grew up in Europe, in my younger days I was never what you would call a Saab enthusiast. And I have to say that one of the most pleasant surprises I’ve had since I returned to General Motors in 2001 is the affection and affinity I’ve developed for the Saab brand and its vehicles. I’ve become a big fan of the driving dynamics. And I’m out to create more fans. We in senior management are convinced that Saab is a jewel in the GM crown, and we’re determined to ensure its success. The product lineup has expanded, and sales are growing both here in North America and in Europe. What’s particularly encouraging is that this spurt of growth has been consistent – it hasn’t been a feast-or-famine, one-month-wonder kind of growth.

The new 9-7X Aero and the 9-3 are excellent examples of Saab leveraging GM’s vast global product development resources. For example, the 9-7X Aero gets its 390 horsepower and 395 foot-pounds of torque from its LS2 6.0L engine, which is based on the small-block V-8 architecture.

So while I’ve read a number of comments on this blog questioning the future of Saab, let me say that it belongs in the GM family and we plan on keeping it there.

P.S. On another topic close to the fore, American automakers and fuel economy, USA Today published a misguided opinion piece July 25, and on Wednesday printed my response to it.

So while I’ve read a number of comments on this blog questioning the future of Saab, let me say that it belongs in the GM family and we plan on keeping it there.

I heard that before in 1992. You know what was announced December 12, 2000 and what transpired in 2004. I am not trying to be a downer, but I learned the hard way with GM expect the unexpected. I also learned to do not blindly follow GM. That same phrase was used in 1992. That division is gone.

Oldsmobile is a different story. Saab won't ever be just shut down, sold off? Maybe, but not killed like Olds.

They don't need Saab. They don't make money, I think they'd be better off spending their money elsewhere. Even if they don't retain Saab customers, if they invested in a Cobalt, Impala or small Cadillac instead, they might pull in buyers from other brands.

"Jewel in the GM crown"?

I think Lutz is getting senile.

I didn't know Bob was a pilot...

@98, you're right, anything is possible.

I heard that before in 1992. You know what was announced December 12, 2000 and what transpired in 2004. I am not trying to be a downer, but I learned the hard way with GM expect the unexpected. I also learned to do not blindly follow GM. That same phrase was used in 1992. That division is gone.

The difference is that Saab has a very clear plan set in place and offers a unique European offering for those not wanting to buy the typical German fare. Olds had been turned into a upper level version of Chevy which was a position already occupied by Pontiac, Buick, and to a lesser extent, Cadillac. There was no longer any reason for it to exist considering most regular buyers went on to buy from other nicer vehicles from the competition.

On top of that, Olds still had no clear plan set into place and the constant reinventions GM put the brand through didn't help matters at all.

i think saab may be on the uptick in a couple years. new 9-5, 9-3 and xwd.

I was saying: "I have heard that before". It is true. It was said before. GM went on the same way saying that. Immediately, this turned in to I was talking about Oldsmobile and how different SAAB is.

Folks.. this is business. That HAS NOTHING to do with Oldsmobile. What I said was not about Oldsmobile. It was the impression on the words that were used. GM has said things before and the total opposite happened. Anything is possible at the state with SAAB. Anyone thought Saturn would turn into the Opels of North America? No.

Smell the coffee.. That same line was used before, and SAAB is not doing so hot right now. I have no issues with SAAB. I just know not to blindly follow and defend GM even when it is wrong and even business decisions are made. It is not like Buick and Pontiac are out of the clear now either. Before you start in on how different this is and how Oldsmobile had it coming, you need to "see the whole picture".

This HAS NOTHING to do with Oldsmobile. This has everything thing to do with what is being said.

I stand by what Rick said at the time of "Oldsmobile's" demise. NO brand, car, or division is sacred.

This is showing to be true.

Monte Carlo is gone, Grand Prix is next and STS and DTS are up next. More cars will die before the dust settles.

If GM gets desperate for cash, we will see how long SAAB is still around. "That will not have anything" to do with Oldsmobile.

would it be devistating to lose saab? i'm just asking. i dont really care for them and i am not saying down with saab but i dont see how they effect the big picture of GM.

The Olds comparo is crap. Olds had the crutch of being Chevy+1, which Pontiac took. Saab has neither the crutch of being Chevy+1 (Pontiac) or being Caddy-1 (Buick) nor being Opel in America, which they tried for a second (Saturn).

GM has taken away Saabs crutch. They have taken Saabs bird, and Saabs bush. They've killed the purpose of the brand.

There's no reason to keep. Sell the factories, bite your lip and keep things pushin! They wait to long to make an obvious decision. There's little cost effective things they CAN do anymore. They had the chances.

The Olds comparo is crap. Olds had the crutch of being Chevy+1, which Pontiac took. Saab has neither the crutch of being Chevy+1 (Pontiac) or being Caddy-1 (Buick) nor being Opel in America, which they tried for a second (Saturn).

GM has taken away Saabs crutch. They have taken Saabs bird, and Saabs bush. They've killed the purpose of the brand.

There's no reason to keep. Sell the factories, bite your lip and keep things pushin! They wait to long to make an obvious decision. There's little cost effective things they CAN do anymore. They had the chances.

Apparently Mr. Lutz disagrees with you, anything in Europe is hands off!

Except the opels and vauxhalls he's sending over in droves that sell like Cold Hotcakes... not at all.

Except the opels and vauxhalls he's sending over in droves that sell like Cold Hotcakes... not at all.

Vauxhalls are just RHD rebadged Opels in most cases.

Edited August 8, 200718 yr by Pontiac Custom-S

Another hands-off corner-cut. Jeez, what is wrong with the people running this company? If only I had the billions of dollars to force a hostile take-over... :rotflmao:

But to the point... KILL SAAB. Then kick it, bludgeon it beyond recognition. Then bury it and fugedahboudit!

Another hands-off corner-cut. Jeez, what is wrong with the people running this company? If only I had the billions of dollars to force a hostile take-over... :rotflmao:

But to the point... KILL SAAB. Then kick it, bludgeon it beyond recognition. Then bury it and fugedahboudit!

Talk to Billionaire Kirk Kerkorian!

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/01/news/compa...an_gm/index.htm

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

"SAAB is a jewel in the GM crown."

SAAB is the ring in the GM bathtub.

Fixed.

SAAB is the ring in the GM bathtub.

Fixed.

SAAB is the O-ring formed in GM's toilet.

Fixed.

I really don't see how Saab adds much to GM. It appears to me that all Saab has become is just another brand that GM has to babysit. I think GM is stretched too thin. Saab would be a perfect brand to dump in my opinion. This would free up development dollars for their other brands. Unless Saab is making major contributions in overseas sales somewhere, then it needs to go.

Edited August 8, 200718 yr by cire

Saab is less redundant as a brand than both Buick and Pontiac, GM just hasn't managed it properly yet.

Well being a former Saab Owner, i am happy with this news... I have always loved SAAB from the 900S I owned all the up to the 9-5 which i got rid of after the lease was done in 2002. If Ford could do it with Volvo I think GM Should atleast try with Saab. Give then AWD to make it compeditive in the Market, and give them some bigger more powerful engines. Hell Volvo went V8 ( I own the XC90 with a V8 and its one of the better V8 i have owned.) Yes i know that saab has the 9-7x but that V8 is stright out of the GM Parts bin. They really need to take the time, and put money and effort into saab, and make it what it was truely ment to be a unique auto brand (quirky). Eh my feeling is GM will unload saab, its been taking a while to come out with replacements for the 9-3 and the 9-5 no affence but you cant still a bandaid on a knife wound.

When I'd rather buy a Saab over a Pontiac, you know something is wrong with that picture.

Saab is less redundant as a brand than both Buick and Pontiac, GM just hasn't managed it properly yet.

Maybe, maybe not. All I know is that I'd consider buying a Buick or Pontiac. Saab ranks below most Japanese brands for me.

What purpose does Saab serve in North America?

I like Saab's, but a lot of people were ticked off when GM bought them, citing that they were going to ruin the brand. They did help it in some ways and ruined them in others. Most recently I have read articles about how crappy the handling/steering is on Saab's still, and that the dreaded torque steer monster still lurks around. AWD may help this but that is just a bandaid I think. I guess keeping Saab could be a question again of too many brands under the GM umbrella, because you can only spread the money around to every brand so much, and this has shown up in Saab more and more.

Edited August 8, 200718 yr by RJB

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

This is agreed upon and true. I own two of them at this moment.

For as long as the impression that Saab is an 'upscale' brand lasts, GM will keep it.

It's not it's US presence, but its international scope that appeals to GM now. With Opel/Vauxhall being squeezed as a mid-market brand in Europe (ironically, partially by Chevy), Saab is 'needed' to keep BMW, Volvo et al. intenders in the GM fold.

I predict that the latest cycle of products will be GM's last attempt to pump real life into Saab---then it'll be dumped if the fixes don't work.

Saab is an interesting case study in mismanaged product and expectations...My dad owned an '86 900 and loved the car...I just think that Saab missed the boat as a practical, sporty maker, rather than a true euro-sport company.

Missing the SUV/CUV crazes when your signature products used to be hatches that were foul-weather beasts is a deep irony that haunts this marque.

Write down this date!

I agree with enzl.

I agree with 98, when the made the announcement of the end of Olds on TV, I think it was Rick Wagner who said " Oldsmobile was a jewel in the GM crown". If anyone has the video of the announcement please post it.

It's not it's US presence, but its international scope that appeals to GM now. With Opel/Vauxhall being squeezed as a mid-market brand in Europe (ironically, partially by Chevy), Saab is 'needed' to keep BMW, Volvo et al. intenders in the GM fold.

Saab is an interesting case study in mismanaged product and expectations...My dad owned an '86 900 and loved the car...I just think that Saab missed the boat as a practical, sporty maker, rather than a true euro-sport company.

Missing the SUV/CUV crazes when your signature products used to be hatches that were foul-weather beasts is a deep irony that haunts this marque.

QFT x2

Let's see what GM has in store for my beloved Swede

Edited August 8, 200718 yr by ZL-1

Write down this date!

I agree with enzl.

Duly noted. :AH-HA_wink:

Here's CAR magazine's take on the near term plans for Saab...sounds interesting....

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_ca...=933&page=1

Edited August 8, 200718 yr by enzl

>>"I like Saab's, but a lot of people were ticked off when GM bought them, citing that they were going to ruin the brand."<<

A lot of other people were ticked off, citing the diverted funding was going to ruin at least some aspects of the core divisions.

SAAB has missed the mark countless times. And keep in mind the kind of people who buy SAABs will refuse to buy a SAAB if it doesn't have 1980s SAAB gadgets like a panel dimmer, flimsy cupholder, or a keypad radio.

the kind of people who buy SAABs will refuse to buy a SAAB if it doesn't have 1980s SAAB gadgets like a panel dimmer, flimsy cupholder, or a keypad radio.

First of all the cupholder isn't flimsy in a 9-5 only the 9-3 (which I own). Secondly, when SAAB comes out w/ a car that doesn't have generic GM parts that are visible (black tie radio in the 9-3) (love the sound of it but just think they should have a brand specific interface) I will be all over them.

Right now GM has Caddy, Hummer, and SAAB for upscale brands and each one offers a different perspective on motoring to consumers while still keeping them in the fold of GM.

Right now GM has Caddy, Hummer, and SAAB for upscale brands and each one offers a different perspective on motoring to consumers while still keeping them in the fold of GM.

If what you say is true then Saab is more like an Acura/Volvo fighter. Because the day it begins to compete with BMW it becomes redundant. Also even with this status the line between it and Buick and Cadillac are thin. May be GM wants people to perceive Saab as a Buidillac.

Saab is less redundant as a brand than both Buick and Pontiac, GM just hasn't managed it properly yet.

Finally someone is making sense!!!

What is with this walk down memory lane?

The market has moved beyond Buick and to some degree Pontiac. Everyone wants GM to just put money into Buick and it will be okay. Well, money is in short supply and whatever money GM has needs to go to the Core Brands!!!!

Chevy and Caddy are the core brands so the bulk of resources should go to them.

QUOTE(Flybrian @ Aug 7 2007, 10:46 PM)

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

This is agreed upon and true. I own two of them at this moment.

I disagree with you both, Oldsmobile has not had any worthy car in the last 1o years of it's life.

In reality, There are still too many brands in the market.

My vision of GM in the US.

Chevy

Fold Pontiac into Buick to fill the mid level market

Saturn as the Asian fighter

Hummer for off road luxury

Cadillac as king.

SAAB I see no use for, keep it in Europe or kill it off.

Maybe, maybe not. All I know is that I'd consider buying a Buick or Pontiac. Saab ranks below most Japanese brands for me.

The 9-3 is a vastly better car than Pontiac's epsilon effort and what, besides the Enclave, does Buick have other than tired old W and G cars?

Also, looking at your list of past, current and future cars, I don't think you are Saab's target market or would even understand the appeal that Saab has.

BTW, why did you buy a Dodge Intrepid?

-Mak

08 CTS 6-speed on order

I'd throw SAAB to the wolves in a heartbeat before I killed Olds.

Write down this date!

I agree with enzl.

yeah, i do as well on that post. yikes

In a nutshell, this means that while volume brands must be content with a MacPherson front axle and a four-link rear suspension, Saab gets a double-wishbone set-up all-round. Steel springs are standard on the 9-3, but the 9-5 and 9-4X can alternatively be had with a brand-new air suspension. Another important option is all-wheel drive; the advanced all-paw layout uses two electronically controlled diffs and an active torque split set-up.

QUOTE(Flybrian @ Aug 7 2007, 10:46 PM)

Oldsmobile had some appealing cars.

I disagree with you both, Oldsmobile has not had any worthy car in the last 1o years of it's life.

I thought the Aurora (both generations) was quite competent and a very modern (and nicely styled) car for it's time... and the Intrigue was the nicest of the '90s W-bodies, IMHO..

Edited August 9, 200718 yr by moltar

Saab is an interesting brand..one thing missing from their current line are the hatchbacks, which were one of their strongest points in the pre-GM era, IMHO. Saab could be potentially be marketed to the entry-premium market, against Acura, Volvo and the lower end Audis, i.e. brands where FWD and AWD are widely accepted.

LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING.

Toyota is selling as many cars as GM with TWO (2.5 if you include Scion) brands. GM doesn't have the cash to be spending on redundant brands that don't sell. If the time comes, Saab will probably be discarded one way or another.

I, too, think that the money would be better spent on GM's compact and midsize cars.

LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING.

Toyota is selling as many cars as GM with TWO (2.5 if you include Scion) brands. GM doesn't have the cash to be spending on redundant brands that don't sell. If the time comes, Saab will probably be discarded one way or another.

I, too, think that the money would be better spent on GM's compact and midsize cars.

Speaking of the brands, does anyone have a quick rundown of CY 2006 GM US sales numbers, broken down by brand? I'm curious where Buick, Pontiac, Saab fall relative to Saturn, etc...

Edited August 9, 200718 yr by moltar

I agree with the peole who are saying that SAAB has

managed to complately alienated its core customer

while managing to find very few to replace them with

anmd therefore it seems as if SAAB was in a position

where they are now up trying to go upstream w/out

a paddle, I'd scuttle that brand along with the Saturn

name, rename Saturns Oldsmobiles & Buick-Opels!

I'd scuttle that brand along with the Saturn

name, rename Saturns Oldsmobiles & Buick-Opels!

I think Saturn is actually on a good path currently... I don't think ressurecting a dead brand name would help. I would keep the Buick brand, but get it some new, modern cars ASAP..not sure what to do about Saab.

The 9-3 is a vastly better car than Pontiac's epsilon effort and what, besides the Enclave, does Buick have other than tired old W and G cars?

Also, looking at your list of past, current and future cars, I don't think you are Saab's target market or would even understand the appeal that Saab has.

BTW, why did you buy a Dodge Intrepid?

-Mak

08 CTS 6-speed on order

The 9-3 is an uninteresting car. Regardless of the old platforms Buick is riding on, their cars still hold more appeal to me, as do Pontiacs.

As far as Saab's "appeal" goes: they have no appeal or tarket market. They abandoned the quirky Swedish car image to become a half-assed luxury brand but only succeeded in becoming another bland, cookie-cutter nameplate roaming the roads.

And my Intrepid...I like the brand, I like the car and it was in my price range. Just because I'm a member of a GM fansite doesn't mean that I'm going to exclusively buy their products.

The 9-3 is an uninteresting car. Regardless of the old platforms Buick is riding on, their cars still hold more appeal to me, as do Pontiacs.

As far as Saab's "appeal" goes: they have no appeal or tarket market. They abandoned the quirky Swedish car image to become a half-assed luxury brand but only succeeded in becoming another bland, cookie-cutter nameplate roaming the roads.

And my Intrepid...I like the brand, I like the car and it was in my price range. Just because I'm a member of a GM fansite doesn't mean that I'm going to exclusively buy their products.

Have you driven a late model 9-3? Just in chassis tuning alone the 9-3 is worlds better (along with its Opel/Saturn brethren) than the G6's gut jiggling nonsense. I won't even get into drivetrain, interior, etc. The 9-3 is actually a very good car.

As for cookie-cutter, can you get much blander than <insert Buick/Pontiac W-car nameplate>? Seriously, Saab might be a little too opelized (and the 9-7 is a travesty), but (US) Buick and Pontiac is just a sea of rental grade cars. Granted, the new G8 looks fantastic and hopefully Buick will get the terrific Holden Statesman/Caprice based Park Avenue that China has, but until then, I can't imagine plunking down money for anything other than an Enclave.

My question about your Intrepid revolved around my interest in what attracted you to the car. I am certainly no GM (or domestic) loyalist (I drive both GM and BMW products right now). Not that I am implying that the Intrepid is a bad car, I just could never imagine wanting such a car (a Charger absolutely). Then again, the LH cars, W cars and G cars are all large front-drivers, so maybe it’s that type of car you like (I will say I had a 95 Aurora and thought it was a great car despite crummy large car FWD handling characteristics).

-Mak