Would you actually compare the last gen LS (or any previous gen-LS) to the new one? The new LS is actually in a completely different segment than the old one. It's Lexus' first large sedan to compete directly against 7-series, A8s, S-Classes, etc. The prev-gen LSs were actually in a segment below, and their MSRPs showed it.

I would picture the Park Avenue (although bigger than prev-gen LSs) fitting quite nicely in the segment formerly dominated by the Infiniti Q45, Lexus LS, budget buy S430's, etc.

Oldsmoboi's segregation of Lexus is a perfect illustration to why GM needs more than one Luxury brand. It would compromise Cadillac's image, prestige, and vision to attempt covering all segments in the near/mid-luxury territory. Leave ultra-luxury and exotics exclusive to the Cadillac Crest but use SAAB, HUMMER, Buick, and Cadillac to "hone in" and target the various (and still growing) near/mid-luxury markets. Some segments (like near luxury sedans) are so polar-opposites depending on the offering, that having multiple entries wouldn't really be considered overlap: (Saab 9-5, Cadillac CTS, Buick LaCrosse 2.0 for example.)

The problem with niche targeting is the resources required to differentiate said product--the 3 'overlap' cars mentioned are different platforms, built in different countries with small overlap of shared componentry...I would sooner see 2 great competitors (FWD/AWD & RWD/AWD) than 5 different products, each compromised by a shortage of development $. That's why GM is considered over-branded---and why the GMC-P-B sales channel makes business sense, even if it upsets individual fans of those marques...

The problem with niche targeting is the resources required to differentiate said product--the 3 'overlap' cars mentioned are different platforms, built in different countries with small overlap of shared componentry...I would sooner see 2 great competitors (FWD/AWD & RWD/AWD) than 5 different products, each compromised by a shortage of development $. That's why GM is considered over-branded---and why the GMC-P-B sales channel makes business sense, even if it upsets individual fans of those marques...

you mean like the Camry built here on the same platform as the ES built in Japan that overlaps with the IS built in Japan that is on a different platform?

Nothing at all like the Lacrosse II built here on the same platform as the 9-5 built in Europe that ovelaps with the CTS built in the US on a different platform......

There is no big differences in resources used. GM does it with 3 more targeted brands, Toyota does it with two. If anything this is more a problem for Lexus because of a foggy brand perception.... is Lexus a squishy luxo cruiser? <ES/RX/LS> or a sporty euro intender <IS/GS/SC>? When you mention Lexus to someone in the general population... what is the car they first think about more likely to be ES or IS? Which would Lexus rather have them think of first?

With GM, the brands can be much more focused. Buick is the squishy luxo cruiser, Saab is the Euro, Cadillac is the bad ass American luxury sport.

Yup. That's it right there....

The first gen. LaCrosse was boring as hell, so that combined with FWD made it worthless.

The new Super grille is a vast improvement though, the W-body needs to die like five

years ago, the B-body needs to be resurected!

I love the B-Body and all, Sixty-8, but resurrecting it would be like ressurecting Frankenstien.

Zeta is where it's at. Sadly, I think our government just put it in a head lock.

Critics will poopoo the lack of a blue and white rondel most of all.

Being more beautiful than the LS shouldn't be terribly difficult, that's kinda like being more beautiful than Kathy Bates... big, stern looking, handsome for what she is, but still no Kathrine Zeta Jones.

The Park Ave probably won't park itself, but for the most part I could see it competing in technology and comforts while still being less money. If you could buy a 360hp Buick Park Ave with all the goodies except self park and it had this interior for $15k less than an LS, wouldn't you?

Only the brand snobs wouldn't.

Hmmm... say it costs 45,000. With plastic wood? Cause again, that's what we have in this beautiful Enclave. The only real wood in the Enclave is in the steering wheel.

And I grew up in a neighborhood where people did make a big deal about things like that. They talked about the exotic woods their cars had, or the technology in their cars. One even went on about how the headlamp lens was made of glass, not plastic.

Haha--I forgot to post my original question... when are we going to get a press release for the LaCrosse? Do we have a date?

Paolino- in your opinion, if real wood feels like plastic, is it really any better than fake wood that feels like plastic?

There's this Grand Canyon disparity of the feel of plastics, but never is the feel of wood ever discussed; undoubtedly a MUCH more rewarding experience than fondling injection-molded chemicals.

Nope; if it's "real" wood (and in many instances, this needs to be spelled out by the manufacturer), it's fantastic, but just don't bother touching it.

What gives?

The problem with niche targeting is the resources required to differentiate said product--the 3 'overlap' cars mentioned are different platforms, built in different countries with small overlap of shared componentry...I would sooner see 2 great competitors (FWD/AWD & RWD/AWD) than 5 different products, each compromised by a shortage of development $. That's why GM is considered over-branded---and why the GMC-P-B sales channel makes business sense, even if it upsets individual fans of those marques...

The problem is a shortage of development $, not overbranding. Cutting the brands just cuts market share, revenue and … development dollars. No solution.

Paolino- in your opinion, if real wood feels like plastic, is it really any better than fake wood that feels like plastic?

There's this Grand Canyon disparity of the feel of plastics, but never is the feel of wood ever discussed; undoubtedly a MUCH more rewarding experience than fondling injection-molded chemicals.

Nope; if it's "real" wood (and in many instances, this needs to be spelled out by the manufacturer), it's fantastic, but just don't bother touching it.

What gives?

Real wood looks so much richer than plastic wood. In my opinion, you just can't substitute. I know it feels like plastic because of all the finishing, but the look is rich, deep, stately, luxurious. I was just looking at the 1994 dot-matrix printout of wood in my car that's faded, and chipping off the doors near the controls this morning :AH-HA_wink:

Pauli, I think you've been looking at the wood in your century too long. Go sit in a new Escalade, it has fake wood but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

And I grew up in a neighborhood where people did make a big deal about things like that. They talked about the exotic woods their cars had, or the technology in their cars. One even went on about how the headlamp lens was made of glass, not plastic.

I can see it now.. Buick's new spokesman, Richardo Montleban, discussing the "rich corinthian wood"* in the new Park Ave.

*Not actual wood

Pauli, I think you've been looking at the wood in your century too long. Go sit in a new Escalade, it has fake wood but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Pauli....I HOPE the only "wood" you are looking at....in your Century....is the peeling stuff on the dash....

LOL

:AH-HA_wink:

Speaking of wood.....GM......let's decide if we are going to use real wood, or plastic.

No more of this "mixing it up" inside your products.

I HATE my CTS wood......because it's real on the steering wheel and door pulls and plastic on the center stack. And NO.....they don't look the same.

The worst part...is the real stuff looks really RICH.....but the stuff on the center stack is so obviously plastic, it's absurd. You can even see on the edges of the center stack where the wood plastic is stuck onto the dash.....tacky, tacky, tacky.....

Pauli, I think you've been looking at the wood in your century too long. Go sit in a new Escalade, it has fake wood but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Thing is, I've seen the "new plood" in other cars, like the Accord (2 gens ago), the current Sonata, the 05-06 LaCrosse, the Lucerne's standard walnut, the Impala... they do NOT look real at all.

Pauli, Pauli.... it's not the wood that matters, it's how you use it.

Pauli, Pauli.... it's not the wood that matters, it's how you use it.

Back on topic please....

Uffa! :AH-HA_wink:

I've never come across wood that I haven't been able tell if it was real or fake. There is a difference, no matter how realistic the faux stuff gets.

The Phoneyest (?) plood I've ever seen is in the Impala we just bought... the stuff in LaCrosse is fake too but it looks more believable.

The imitation wood trim in the LaCrosse was recently updated. The stuff in the LaCrosse Super looks even more convincing than in the regular trims. I've noticed in GM cars that the darker (Brown/gray) tones tend to look more realistic than the reddish tones.

Pauli, I think you've been looking at the wood in your century too long. Go sit in a new Escalade, it has fake wood but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

PS - I knew the wood in the Escalade was fake... before it was even released. I knew it the second I saw it in photos... and I was blown away. Fake wood in a Cadillac? C'mon already. It has to stop. I don't care if when they put the real stuff in Caddy's people complained... get better real wood. But don't put fake wood in.

The imitation wood trim in the LaCrosse was recently updated. The stuff in the LaCrosse Super looks even more convincing than in the regular trims. I've noticed in GM cars that the darker (Brown/gray) tones tend to look more realistic than the reddish tones.

That's the problem with the Impala... Too much red.

The imitation wood trim in the LaCrosse was recently updated. The stuff in the LaCrosse Super looks even more convincing than in the regular trims. I've noticed in GM cars that the darker (Brown/gray) tones tend to look more realistic than the reddish tones.

You're right.

This darker/grayer trim looks more realistic:

... than the burl/walnut look:

You're right.

This darker/grayer trim looks more realistic:

... than the burl/walnut look:

The reddish burl/walnut plood reminds me of some Sauder kit furniture I used to have...

The reddish burl/walnut plood reminds me of some Sauder kit furniture I used to have...

You know, you're right.

And what's funny is...

... my Dad, who NEVER cares what something looks like... for example, he thought the wood trim in the Sonata was just beautiful... thought my cousin's rental Lucerne's wood (the burl walnut) was horrendous. He said they didn't even try to make it look real. I keep hoping they update it with a MCE.