Okay, so I want to get the Zeta bits all in one place but I'm sure I don't have everything right. So correct me where I'm wrong.

Zeta - Approved for production:

Chevrolet: The Camaro

Pontiac: The G8

Buick: Lucerne Replacement

Cadillac: DTS replacement

Zeta - Cancellations:

Chevrolet:

*The Impala, or a "large Chevrolet sedan" -- Has been rumored since 2005-ish, but was possibly shelved then/possible FWD replacement revealed in the UAW documents/Finally killed for sure by Lutz. This was an official program, right? After all it was assigned a code. Or was it just a design study?

Pontiac:

*G8 Sportwagon -- Was never officially greenlighted or announced and was killed for lack of market.

*GTO -- Only in the rumor stage. Despite people saying that GM was doing clay mock ups back before Zeta was cancelled the first time, it never actually existed, right? (except in theory)

Zeta - Rumor mill:

Pontiac:

*G8 ST -- To be announced maybe in New York.

GMC:

*Crewman concept -- To be shown in New York and gauged for public reaction, which means a good possibility of production.

Buick:

*Park Avenue to slot above the Lucerne. -- Was this merely rumor or was it refering to the Lucerne program or is it BS?

*Coupe or Convertible (Riviera/Velite) -- I'm pretty sure this was just straight rumor, right?

Cadillac:

*CTS replacement -- (Eventually)

*ULS -- Word was that it would be on an extended version of Zeta. I know the rumor mill has been buzzing, but nothing solid yet, right?

Believe it or not, Opel was even showing some promise of producing real cars at one point. That was when they put out their best concept:

But alas, they wimped out....

Edited January 16, 200818 yr by FUTURE_OF_GM

The Buick and Caddy zetas appear to be confrimed by the UAW documents. Can that change?

I'm not sure.

The question should be, when will it change? :AH-HA_wink:

The question should be, when will it change? :AH-HA_wink:

you mean when will GM Europe stop being a bunch of "we know what's best for you now sit down and shut up" douchebags and let the US <and Australia, and the Middle East, and Asia> have real cars and switch everything in that list to "approved"

If what Mr. PCS is true in its own cryptic sense. Time to buy Hondas and BMW's and older GM. Because they can build better driver's cars than Appliances we will see from GM.

you mean when will GM Europe stop being a bunch of "we know what's best for you now sit down and shut up" douchebags and let the US <and Australia, and the Middle East, and Asia> have real cars and switch everything in that list to "approved"

Now, now, no sour grapes now! Have I not been saying for months now this was coming? Remember you all laughed and said never? You remember that? Did I not say January 2008 things would change? Remember TICK-TOCK? I tried to warn you, I really really did.

Well the show has started, I told you to get popcorn, it was going to be a hell of a ride. :AH-HA_wink:

If what Mr. PCS is true in its own cryptic sense. Time to buy Hondas and BMW's and older GM. Because they can build better driver's cars than Appliances we will see from GM.

Umm, GM's been build appliances for 20+ years...many car enthusiasts long ago moved to Hondas and BMWs...

Now, now, no sour grapes now! Have I not been saying for months now this was coming? Remember you all laughed and said never? You remember that? Did I not say January 2008 things would change? Remember TICK-TOCK? I tried to warn you, I really really did.

Well the show has started, I told you to get popcorn, it was going to be a hell of a ride. :AH-HA_wink:

The beginning of the end...GM NA will be dead with a decade? Is that the plan?

Edited January 16, 200818 yr by moltar

Umm, GM's been build appliances for 20+ years...many car enthusiasts long ago moved to Hondas and BMWs...

At least there was a ray of hope existing after seeing the Camaro and Zetas and Alphas.

I will not be surprised now if Alpha gets canceled. After we are hyped up about it, GM will put a hammer on the excitement. They are already groaning about 1mpg in the other article PCS posted.

At least there was a ray of hope existing after seeing the Camaro and Zetas and Alphas.

I will not be surprised now if Alpha gets canceled. After we are hyped up about it, GM will put a hammer on the excitement. They are already groaning about 1mpg in the other article PCS posted.

Well it would have to have started to be canceled, would it not?

Well it would have to have started to be canceled, would it not?

I stand corrected.

From the sound of it, the car company that has produced so many of the vehicles I have daydreamed about is going to become a mass-producer of uninteresting, "economical" front-wheel drive vehicles. Not to say GM wasn't like that already, but they definitely made some gems too.

I don't want "European"... I want North American.

I want to be able to buy something that I will aspire to own, something that I'll be happy to drive, something that puts a grin ten miles wide on my face each time the engine fires up, and not cost me 60K. But from what I've been reading and hearing, that vehicle may not be a GM.

Must be fun for PCS to grin about all these changes while he has a real car in his garage, and yet us kids will have to settle for small, whiny little econoboxes in the future.

Edited January 16, 200818 yr by Captainbooyah

Don't settle.

Vote with your money.

If the foolish side of this battle wins, make them drown in their "victory".

They, and those who allow it to happen, will deserve their fate.

I'm glad I'm not partial to GM.

I'm a Ford fan at heart but I'm very open to buying GM vehicles considering that is what I have driven for the last 7 years and that is primarily what I was raised around. Reading about all these cancellations is beginning to sour my mood, especially toward GM Europe. Meanwhile, Ford has a RWD Ford and Lincoln full-size in development, a Mustang on sale right now and what looks to be a bright future for that nameplate, plus rumors of a RWD Lincoln coupe, twin-turbo V6 engines, and the good chance that the new Explorer will be RWD. Why is there no panic over in Dearborn about CAFE and all kinds of slashing of programs? As GM's future seems to get gloomier, Ford's has been getting brighter the last couple months with the official announcement of the RWD cars, the new Explorer, and the EcoBoost engines.

It looks like Ford and Chrysler(?) will be building the types of cars I want to buy in the future.

It's too bad GM Europe is running the show. I'm sure the Camaro and G8 would have been axed if they had taken the reigns earlier. Here's to hoping the GM I love is still around twenty years from now.

Edited January 17, 200818 yr by mustang84

Stepford ocn: "Give me a Corsa diesel automatic, please."

I wish GM would just really try -- and I mean really try -- to save Zeta. If it means sacrificing one V8 option and having more V6s, then so be it. Just, please, don't keep the W-Horror around for another decade and give us some real American cars. As mustang84 pointed out, Ford is giving us some real cars at last, so why can't you?

GM=drama queens.

ENOUGH Already!!! just put out new cars!!!!!!!!!!

I've decided that I'm going to reserve all judgement on vehicles till I actually see them in either spy pictures, or on the dealer's lot.

ill quote myself from the GTO DEAD thread

i hate to say it, but tick-f@#king-tock

Now, now, no sour grapes now! Have I not been saying for months now this was coming? Remember you all laughed and said never? You remember that? Did I not say January 2008 things would change? Remember TICK-TOCK? I tried to warn you, I really really did.

Well the show has started, I told you to get popcorn, it was going to be a hell of a ride. :AH-HA_wink:

it's one thing to tell us it was coming. it's completely another to take glee in all of our disappointment. that is what makes you particularly annoying.

it's one thing to tell us it was coming. it's completely another to take glee in all of our disappointment. that is what makes you particularly annoying.

I think he is a sadist..he get joy from the suffering of others.

i hate to say it, but tick-f@#king-tock

Jene wörter sollen nicht erwähnt werden.

YJ, not only dont i know what you said, im not even sure what language? german?

translated--Those words are not to be mentioned

yea i was just about to post that.... i ran through babblefish

sorry.. im just getting more depressed with GM by the day

Yes. It's German.

Figure I would learn a little bit of it in addition to what limited Spanish I know. It looks good on the old job resume, especially when you want to to what I want to do. :AH-HA_wink:

That, and it only boosts my chances of getting into college.

And, hey, I think we're all more than a little pissed with GM, especially the more enthusiastic of us. If GM didn't have the Camaro coming for next year, I would be defecting to BMW eighty percent right now.

Edited January 17, 200818 yr by YellowJacket894

i took 6 years of spanish in elementary school... and two years of italian in high school... and i dont know much of either... the way they teach it in school doesnt work..

ive been looking into the Rosetta Stone program, heard it works. Since speaking spanish really helps to land law enforcement jobs around here, i want to learn more of it....

german seems hard

i took 6 years of spanish in elementary school... and two years of italian in high school... and i dont know much of either... the way they teach it in school doesnt work..

ive been looking into the Rosetta Stone program, heard it works. Since speaking spanish really helps to land law enforcement jobs around here, i want to learn more of it....

german seems hard

I did 4 years of Spanish (2 hs, 2 college). But it doesn't really help much.. though it would be useful, since the US is moving towards billingualism. I want to learn French...I've thought about the Rosetta Stone program or taking a class in the evenings.

Jene wörter sollen nicht erwähnt werden.

Don't give up your English day job! Tick-Tock! :AH-HA_wink:

it's one thing to tell us it was coming. it's completely another to take glee in all of our disappointment. that is what makes you particularly annoying.

And I'm taking glee how? I'm only taking glee when you see this :rotflmao:

i took 6 years of spanish in elementary school... and two years of italian in high school... and i dont know much of either... the way they teach it in school doesnt work..

Which is why the Spanish I know is limited.

ive been looking into the Rosetta Stone program, heard it works. Since speaking spanish really helps to land law enforcement jobs around here, i want to learn more of it....

german seems hard

Oh, it is. I've got the book I'm using right here on my desk. Learning a few basic phrases and words for writing coherent thoughts isn't quite the nightmare that I initially thought, but it's definitely not a cakewalk (so don't kid yourself if you start to take an interest in learning it like I did). I've been studying it for almost a month or so now, one of the last things I do before finally going to sleep (the only time where I have a free moment is in the final hours before I go to bed), and what I have learned thus far has allowed me to write a portion of my signature (although I struggled to do it) and my post in response to yours (again, I struggled).

Speaking it, on the other hand, is an entirely different story. Es ist sehr schlecht.

It's a hard language to learn, but it's such a strong one, and quite fun to learn as well.

Edited January 17, 200818 yr by YellowJacket894

Don't give up your English day job! Tick-Tock! :AH-HA_wink:

Dort ist es wieder!

Edited January 17, 200818 yr by YellowJacket894

Is PCS still here? I thought no one took him seriously?

Well...

The reality of the situation is that we've only lost ONE Zeta vehicle. The GTO/Monaro project has been dead as a door nail for a long time, that wasn't even news. And the wagon, although nice, is volume that could probably be better utilized, I'm guessing for the Ute and Crewman which will no doubt sell better than the wagon.

I don't really see what the big deal is thus far... We've had 4 confirmed Zetas from day one and we still have 4 confirmed Zetas until Lutz or Wagoner says so. The ST is icing on the cake, as was the wagon, but now instead of the wagon we have the crewman as icing on the cake. As for the Impala, it was in limbo and in trouble LONG before PCS gang supposedly 'took control' (or whatever) of GM.