Hmmmm, that's odd. Lutz won't talk to Winding Road about the Pontiac Sport Truck, I wonder why?

Link: http://news.windingroad.com/etc/lutz-no-ho...-for-us-market/

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by Pontiac Custom-S

Regardless if it's coming or not officially, I hope Lutz's silence means it does come, just for Camino's sake.

He's probably mum because it's set to drop at one of the auto shows.

I still don't think Zeta is completely down and out... Show me the OFFICIAL cancellations and then I'll believe you.

Given the recent rash of purely stupid decisions...

Given the recent rash of purely stupid decisions...

Given the recent rash of purely stupid decisions...

I'm not going to lie, this seems lik it is going to be an amazing car that no one will buy. I just don't see it having enough of a sales base...

I'm not going to lie, this seems lik it is going to be an amazing car that no one will buy. I just don't see it having enough of a sales base...

Considering that they can't import more than about 10k due to capacity, they will have no problem selling every one.

Considering that they can't import more than about 10k due to capacity, they will have no problem selling every one.

Some internal studies are starting to say otherwise.

Some internal studies are starting to say otherwise.

"Internal", you say?

Who wrote them,you?

"Internal", you say?

Who wrote them,you?

No, I am not a bean counter. :AH-HA_wink:

The wide range of people expressing a desire for the ST should be a clue for the beancounters to take a look outside for a change.

You can mark my GXP manual version "sold" today.

i see no reason pontiac cannot sell 10k each of the wagon and sport truck

beancounters suck.

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by regfootball

The ST is a no brainer here...

The wagon was questionable. Sure, small inexpensive wagons sell but larger wagons, especially sporty ones, seem to fall off the map.

If the internal studies are showing otherwise, it's because someone is effing with the results. But, that's okay because when GM fails in the market, our sweet revenge will be seeing all of those white collar assholes in the unemployment lines.

If the internal studies are showing otherwise, it's because someone is effing with the results. But, that's okay because when GM fails in the market, our sweet revenge will be seeing all of those white collar assholes in the unemployment lines.

We'll know the outcome of the G8 sales soon enough. It'll be on sale soon, and the sedan will sell or flop regardless of the ute/wagon combo sitting beside it on Pontiac showrooms. If Pontiac doesn't sell every G8, then Pontiac is probably as good as dead.

Not to be cruel, but Pontiac being phased out won't cause GM to fail in any market place. Seriously. The phase-out would have even less impact in the US than Oldsmobile since all dealerships are being merged into GMC & Buick. Canada sold a total of 403,712 GM vehicles through a combined 743 GM dealerships in 2007. That market isn't large enough to sustain the importance of any one brand in North America.

Chevrolet will be strong with the Corvette & Camaro performance cars along with hybrid sedans, CUVs, & SUVs (don't forget the upcoming Volt). Saturn will have all of Opel's portfolio. Cadillac will have the recently released CTS sedan/Coupe/V-Series, BRX, Hybrid Escalade, and what ever else comes after that. Buick will have the Chinese vehicles to sell cross markets.

None of which has the power to keep me in the GM fold.

Somehow, I don't think Ven would be so philosophical about this if PCS were droning on and on about Buick being killed.

Somehow, I don't think Ven would be so philosophical about this if PCS were droning on and on about Buick being killed.

Buick and GMC are on his "eventual target" list as well.

He wants us all to die of boredom with only the choice between Chevy and Cadillac.

No thanks, I'll take the zero.

The ST is a no brainer here...

The wagon was questionable. Sure, small inexpensive wagons sell but larger wagons, especially sporty ones, seem to fall off the map.

If the internal studies are showing otherwise, it's because someone is effing with the results. But, that's okay because when GM fails in the market, our sweet revenge will be seeing all of those white collar assholes in the unemployment lines.

I think the wagon has more potential than people are giving them credit for. It amazes me that GM says wagons don't sell, yet Subaru sold 59,262 Outbacks in 2006. Source

Appears the product planners and bean counters didn't look very hard...

Somehow, I don't think Ven would be so philosophical about this if PCS were droning on and on about Buick being killed.

See Camino's post...

The strongest point Buick has is China. It is GM's strongest and largest brand. The second point Buick has is its need to sustain the GMC franchises in the US after Pontiac is gone. If the Chinese Buicks don't sell well in the US, I can see Buick becoming a Chinese-only brand... and that means GMC disappearing also.

Buick isn't safe... it's up against the same things Pontiac, Holden, Daewoo, GMC, etc are up against.

What we're currently witnessing is the start. Pontiac is first (and pretty much definite if G8 fails.)

The best post to sum up all of this was the one that essentially stated that this was a great plan - if a market share of 12% is the goal.

Without all of the brands, GM's reason to be sort of disappears.

The best post to sum up all of this was the one that essentially stated that this was a great plan - if a market share of 12% is the goal.

Without all of the brands, GM's reason to be sort of disappears.

In your opinion alone, or to the market as a whole?

Somehow, I don't think Ven would be so philosophical about this if PCS were droning on and on about Buick being killed.

Well, it's not officially on GM's chopping block, just PCS's and few others that tend to agree with his sentiments. Same for Pontiac.

As I have said before, GM's in a state of extreme internal imbalance (the company is torn because of CAFE and disagreements between employees) so nothing is set in stone. But a lot of programs are in limbo right now, the GMX551 Impala especially.

Edited January 21, 200818 yr by YellowJacket894

In your opinion alone, or to the market as a whole?

If it is only Chevy and Caddy, is it still GM?

If it is only Chevy and Caddy, is it still GM?

It is if they are run by General Motors Corp.

Where does GM's market share stand today v. before the announcement came down that Olds was being murdered? They have not recovered Oldsmobile's market share, nor will they recover Pontiac's if the division is assassinated. GM can stabilize worldwide marketshare by pumping out Third World junk around the globe, but I don't give a damn about the Third World, I live in the richest nation on earth, and I happen to think all Pontiac needs is some attention in the form of product to survive and prosper.

Where does GM's market share stand today v. before the announcement came down that Olds was being murdered? They have not recovered Oldsmobile's market share, nor will they recover Pontiac's if the division is assassinated. GM can stabilize worldwide marketshare by pumping out Third World junk around the globe, but I don't give a damn about the Third World, I live in the richest nation on earth, and I happen to think all Pontiac needs is some attention in the form of product to survive and prosper.

Now that GM is able to manuever more easily amongst the Unions... control production capacity (plant closings) and staffing (buyouts)... market share is not as important as profitability.

As PCS outlined in the glut of dealers topic, dealerships starved of product will eventually capitulate without much effort exerted from GM.

Well, it's not officially on GM's chopping block, just PCS's and few others that tend to agree with his sentiments. Same for Pontiac.

As I have said before, GM's in a state of extreme internal imbalance (the company is torn because of CAFE and disagreements between employees) so nothing is set in stone. But a lot of programs are in limbo right now, the GMX551 Impala especially.

I know for a fact that GMX551 is dead, Lutz even said so. Your getting a FWD Impala, just get use to that idea. I hope you have your money saved up for your Camaro, I hear it may be a short run. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited January 21, 200818 yr by Pontiac Custom-S

Where does GM's market share stand today v. before the announcement came down that Olds was being murdered? They have not recovered Oldsmobile's market share, nor will they recover Pontiac's if the division is assassinated. GM can stabilize worldwide marketshare by pumping out Third World junk around the globe, but I don't give a damn about the Third World, I live in the richest nation on earth, and I happen to think all Pontiac needs is some attention in the form of product to survive and prosper.

So you live in Luxembourg? Howdy neighbor!

Luxembourg is currently first in GDP per capita, as well as GDP (PPP-purchasing power parity) per capita.

I know for a fact that GMX551 is dead, Lutz even said so. Your getting a FWD Impala, just get use to that idea. I hope you have your money saved up for your Camaro, I hear it may be a short run. :AH-HA_wink:

The article that I know you are referencing states that Lutz "halted the development of [...] some future Zeta-based vehicles." "Halted" doesn't seem to say "dead like road-kill" in this case, more like "suspended indefinitely."

I've made peace with the fact that the Impala will never be the flagship car it once was. I guess if I want an Impala, one from 1969 will be setting in my driveway instead of one from 2009.

I just hope that what some of the signs seem to indicate are true and that the NG Impala won't be called Impala at all.

Oh, and I know the Camaro's future hangs in the balance with GMNA's recent upheaval, and you can bet good money that I'm not waiting to see if a sixth-generation model is built before I buy mine.

Edited January 21, 200818 yr by YellowJacket894

The article that I know you are referencing states that Lutz "halted the development of [...] some future Zeta-based vehicles." "Halted" doesn't seem to say "dead like road-kill" in this case, more like "suspended indefinitely."

Oh, and I know the Camaro's future hangs in the balance with GMNA's recent upheaval, and you can bet good money that I'm not waiting to see if a sixth-generation model is built before I buy mine.

Guess what happens when you stop or halt a heart from beating?

Smart boy, get them while they're hot. :AH-HA_wink:

If it is only Chevy and Caddy, is it still GM?

LOL, don't forget about Saturn/Opel...

So, by then we'll have the choice of Daewoo junk (Chevrolet) Cadillacs that are too expensive for 85% of us to afford and the adrogenous Saturn.

Welp, I'll not drive a Daewoo and I'm not an effeminate euro-pussy so that rules out Saturn/Opel.

Looks like Ford is my new number 1!

What an EXCELLENT plan!

And, FWIW, the Saturn 'turnaround' has been far from the explosive success that everyone predicted. That should be an indication right there that what's good for the limeys isn't always good for the yanks.

Guess what happens when you stop or halt a heart from beating?

Smart boy, get them while they're hot. :AH-HA_wink:

LOL, now I know you're just talking $h!.

I know some of the Camaro guys and they'd never go down without a fight. Expect to see an F6 on your precious Alpha platform, I'm willing to bet the business case is already being pitched.

Edited January 21, 200818 yr by FUTURE_OF_GM

400hp V8 6 speed 3200lb alpha camaro!

400hp V8 6 speed 3200lb alpha camaro!

That's what I'm hoping for... It seems that GME might just be doing us a favor if all the chips fall into place.

The possibilities are endless... Chevrolet Camaro and/or Nova, Pontiac G6 and/or Firebird, Buick Skylark, a cohesive Cadillac line, etc.

LOL, now I know you're just talking $h!.

I know some of the Camaro guys and they'd never go down without a fight. Expect to see an F6 on your precious Alpha platform, I'm willing to bet the business case is already being pitched.

Here is something to ask yourself, how long are the CAW and UAW contracts for? :AH-HA_wink:

Sure, a Zeta based Camaro might only last 3-4 years. But that was already a given.

Besides that, I don't really see what it has to do with anything.

Besides that, I don't really see what it has to do with anything.

No? What a shame. :AH-HA_wink:

No? What a shame. :AH-HA_wink:

Oh no...

I'm losing my seat at the front of the class...

Well... I know the cars (Zeta --some of them) were promised to the unions. But I still don't see how that would affect an Alpha F6, unless GM does bring the Zeta rpogram into NA capacity and has no room to build an Alpha F6 (Which I doubt)

I mean, the greedy bastards at the unions CERTAINLY aren't going to turn down NA built product regardless of what it is.

OR another Scenario could be increased small car production (To play by CAFE rules, it must be built here) that might bump the program.

Hell, for all intents and purposes, the F6 could probably hitch a ride on NG Kappa just as easily.

I'm getting really tired of this.

You know...times like this I'm glad I'm a Chrysler fan at heart. Sure they make mistakes, but at least they have the f@#king balls to produce RWD vehicles and then don't have crazy nutjobs trying to kill off good platforms and shove FWD replacements down our throats because some people have a vendetta against part of the company.

Edited January 21, 200818 yr by Dodgefan

I'm getting really tired of this.

You know...times like this I'm glad I'm a Chrysler fan at heart. Sure they make mistakes, but at least they have the f@#king balls to produce RWD vehicles and then don't have crazy nutjobs trying to kill off good platforms and shove FWD replacements down our throats because some people have a vendetta against part of the company.

:rotflmao: How would you feel had Daimler sold Chrysler to GM .Just think about,Pontiac:dead ,Chrysler brand:dead, Dodge cars:dead,and all of Chrysler engines and platforms would have been throw in the trash by .

GM would also close and tear down Chrysler Auburn Hills headquarters,and sell Mopar .

Edited January 21, 200818 yr by Toyota.vs.GM

:rotflmao: How would you feel had Daimler sold Chrysler to GM .Just think about,Pontiac:dead ,Chrysler brand:dead, Dodge cars:dead,and all of Chrysler engines and platforms would have been throw in the trash by .

GM would also close and tear down Chrysler Auburn Hills headquarters,and sell Mopar .

And today's happy thoughts brought to you by Angel's Ice Cream shop! Angels, because every day at Angels is a happy thought.

And today's happy thoughts brought to you by Angel's Ice Cream shop! Angels, because every day at Angels is a happy thought.

Did I add that most of Chrysler's employees would have been fired .

Edited January 22, 200818 yr by Toyota.vs.GM

I know some of the Camaro guys and they'd never go down without a fight. Expect to see an F6 on your precious Alpha platform, I'm willing to bet the business case is already being pitched.

We need more guys at GM like the folks who so righteously defend the Camaro defending cars like the GMX551, and the other cars that were going to be riding on Zeta.

I hope the Camaro isn't short lived and that it doesn't go on another hiatus again. That wouldn't be in GM's best interest.