An ungodly number of states(22 maybe?) are holding primaries/caucuses today. Go vote. Yes, its just a primary, and yes all the candidates have flaws, but if you dont vote now you're not allowed to bitch about the candidates on the ballot in November.

My (rather safe) predictions:

Republicans: Romney has a strong showing in MA and UT, McCain squeaks by him in the rest of the states.

Ron Paul comes in a pretty respectable third, drops out of the Republican race, waits a bit, then announces he is running as a third party candidate (he ran as a Libertarian in '88) and becomes the first semi-viable third party candidate since Perot in '92.

Democrats: More of the same, votes will be split between Clinton and Obama (Mike Gravel may get a sympathy vote), this will drag for what seems like forever.

The important thing: GO VOTE!

The important thing: GO VOTE!

I am really sad with something I saw on TV last night regarding my country (Portugal), so GO VOTE! Participation means you get to choose and ensure the quality of Democracy does not deteriorate further.

Edited February 5, 200818 yr by ZL-1

It should be quite the interesting day....

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/opinion/wa...y_blowou_1.html

Enjoy.

My state isn't part of Super Tuesday, but if yours is, I agree with Satty - GO VOTE!

If Ron Paul does go the third party route, I'd be pleased. I am a registered Libertarian after all.

I really think he will, and I really think it will be a good thing for the country. He has raised a ton of money, but hasn't been able to turn that into votes. Everyone (it seems) knows who he is and what he's about, but Republican primary voters are passing over him. I really expected him to win New Hampshire. On Meet the Press several weeks ago, he refused to rule out running as a third party, like I said, if he does its good for the country. If people finally take him seriously, he could win, especially if Romney (maybe too conservative) and Clinton (very divisive figure) are the two major party candidates. Otherwise he's either going to be Perot (exit polls showed his voters would have split almost evenly between Bush and Clinton, so he didn't have a big outcome on the result) or Nader (cost Gore the election in 2000).

*gasp* you didn't mention huckabee. lol

everyone should know who i'm voting for. hehe

i bet 80% of democrat voters will be like... who's this Mike Gravel?

no predictions from me, only hope.

I'm going to caucus tonite....first time..(Colorado switched from primaries to caucuses a while back).

Huckabee actually has some excellent positions on a number of big issues, but he is way too much a part of the extreme religious right in the end.

The Republicans really shoot themselves in the foot with the social issues they allow to define them. Without that baggage, they could probably own the government for the forseeable future.

At least the ones like Huckabee.

But that's what Libertarians are for. :AH-HA_wink:

I am not out to start anything so nobody needs to pick up a rock and take aim... I am curious about the gay patrons of C & G and their view towards the Clintons. Is it favorable or unfavorable?

The reason I ask is I grew up working with three gay people in a company - two were brother and sister - and all of them hate what the Clintons did after the promises that were made. Just curious if that animosity still exists in your circles or if they have been forgiven.

I personally do not like ANY of the candidates, but wil say I would vote for Satan himself before I gave Billary a vote.

Obama's Accomplishments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQtP0

I voted today!!!!! Now the rest of you better get off your @$$3$ and do the same

voted @ 11 am

Voted.

Voted a couple weeks ago.

Camino says my state isn't a part of it... And I just got off work after being there all day.

Voted.

Kudos to everyone who voted, I really envy every one of you. I guess now all the projections are in but MO (D) and AK ( R ) so I think I'll call it a night.

Edited February 6, 200818 yr by vonVeezelsnider

I caucused...interesting experience, to say the least...

Indiana (home state, current registration) isn't until May, but what the hell, I'll be voting absentee in a non-GE for the first time. I want change, and I want it in 2008.

Voted... provisional, because my absentee ballot never arrived, and I didn't want to drive 30+ miles to my original polling place.

Some of the numbers are pretty fascinating. Guess I discounted Huckabee a little early, sorry Mike, you seem like a nice guy, I just really dont want you to be president. Obama did really well in Idaho, like 80%, that one surprised me, mostly because I figured there were only about 8 democrats in Idaho. Proportional delegate distribution is stupid and makes the process a pain to sort through, someone please forward this info to the DNC. Mike Gravel got no love, even in Alaska. He raised 10% of what Kucinich got, I just had to root for him. Didn't vote for him, but had to root for him. More surprising was the lack of Ron Paul votes.

I'm actually a fan of proportional representation with regards to delegates. Preserves more of the voice of the people. Oh, and Obama is definitely benefitting from it.

I can see the benefit, but it would simplify the process to do away with it. I dont see how a brokered convention helps anything, that seems to be where the democratic race is heading, it will divide the party. Plus, it just seems strange, the way delegates are apportioned. Take Alabama for example, right now CNN shows 99% of precients in

Obama Clinton

300,097 222,887

56% 42%

17 17

The bottom number is the delegate count, how does a spread of 77xxx votes (and 14%) work out to give each the same number of delegates?

I can see the benefit, but it would simplify the process to do away with it. I dont see how a brokered convention helps anything, that seems to be where the democratic race is heading, it will divide the party. Plus, it just seems strange, the way delegates are apportioned. Take Alabama for example, right now CNN shows 99% of precients in

Obama Clinton

300,097 222,887

56% 42%

17 17

The bottom number is the delegate count, how does a spread of 77xxx votes (and 14%) work out to give each the same number of delegates?

It is part and parcel of the game. Clinton won NH, but Obama took 1 delegate more than her.

Winner-take-all is far too disenfranchising to me. For example, in a state with a large number of delegates where the vote was split 48.6 to 48.5, that .1 difference is obliterated at the delegate level. It simplifies the process, but it oversimplifies the popular sentiment. If a large, delegate-rich state has very close support between two candidates, IMO that support should be split.

Winner-take-all is far too disenfranchising to me. For example, in a state with a large number of delegates where the vote was split 48.6 to 48.5, that .1 difference is obliterated at the delegate level. It simplifies the process, but it oversimplifies the popular sentiment. If a large, delegate-rich state has very close support between two candidates, IMO that support should be split.

Agreed...I think the delegate count should be proportional to the popular vote..

More surprising was the lack of Ron Paul votes.

well... he supposedly has 42 delegates, up from.. 8? earlier. it's a little sad, but his home state has yet to vote, so it's still not truely decided... and who knows... maybe 1 more person will drop out on the R side.. those delegates would be up for grabs then.

I was talking about in MO specifically, should have clarified that. Paul seems to have a lot of local support (his signs are everywhere) yet he didn't do too well 'round here.

So Romney's gone...I was surprised he dropped out so soon after Tuesday, but mathematically he can't catch up to McCain in the remaining primaries...so when will Huckabee quit? Interesting developments..

Huckabee doesn't seem the type to quit - he is likely angling for the VP spot.

Huckabee doesn't seem the type to quit - he is likely angling for the VP spot.

I would be really surprised if McCain picked him as VP...they seem so different, I can't see them on the same ticket..but who knows.

Some people theorized that Huckabee stayed in so long to split the conservative vote with Romney, clearing the way for McCain to win and Huckabee to be the VP nominee. See West Virginia for some evidence that this theory may have merit.

Some people theorized that Huckabee stayed in so long to split the conservative vote with Romney, clearing the way for McCain to win and Huckabee to be the VP nominee. See West Virginia for some evidence that this theory may have merit.

Maybe...I think Romney would be a better VP choice...Huckabee is a scary southern religious conservative, while McCain is a western moderate...Romney is more of a professional business-oriented fiscal conservative and presents a more palatable combination, I think.

romney just froze his campaign....his delegates could be split up if doesn't continue his campaign.

It's shaping up to be quite an election of lesser evils, isn't it? Mike Suckabee is an asshole for helping to edge out the only real Republican running. Hillary vs. Obama vs. McAmnesty has to be the most pathetic lineup in recorded history; it's not even a two-party election anymore! Regardless of the outcome we end up with a Democrat in the White House at a time when it is least needed and most dangerous to have one. Fantastic.

Michigan newspapers endorsed McCain, and I think he can help the Auto industry and Detroit in general. The same goes with Romney's opposition of CAFE, either of them would be AOK.

It's shaping up to be quite an election of lesser evils, isn't it? Mike Suckabee is an asshole for helping to edge out the only real Republican running. Hillary vs. Obama vs. McAmnesty has to be the most pathetic lineup in recorded history; it's not even a two-party election anymore! Regardless of the outcome we end up with a Democrat in the White House at a time when it is least needed and most dangerous to have one. Fantastic.

I'm hoping Obama gets in, though I'd be happy with Hillary...I'd love to see a Democrat in the White House..the Republitards had 8 years to royally f*ck things up, we need change...

Michigan newspapers endorsed McCain, and I think he can help the Auto industry and Detroit in general. The same goes with Romney's opposition of CAFE, either of them would be AOK.

uh.... McCain "believes" in global warming... and wants to put another ~$.50 tax on gasoline... how would that help the auto industry?

uh.... McCain "believes" in global warming... and wants to put another ~$.50 tax on gasoline... how would that help the auto industry?

Nothing wrong with that..esp. if the tax were used for road construction, energy research, etc..

Nothing wrong with that..esp. if the tax were used for road construction, energy research, etc..

sorry, i don't think the federal government needs to be a business like that. besides, taxing things is a democratic way to have funds to make change. that tax would decimate the people that have lots of jobs across this country...putting them in unemployment, meaning less revenue more expenditures, meaning more taxes needed...provided the bottom line didn't change... you know "3trillion dollar budget"

....yes, there would be something wrong with that.

sorry, i don't think the federal government needs to be a business like that. besides, taxing things is a democratic way to have funds to make change. that tax would decimate the people that have lots of jobs across this country...putting them in unemployment, meaning less revenue more expenditures, meaning more taxes needed...provided the bottom line didn't change... you know "3trillion dollar budget"

....yes, there would be something wrong with that.

50 cents on a gallon isn't much, though. The government wastes billions on pointless wars, why not spend some on infrastructure?

Edited February 8, 200818 yr by moltar

>>"Hillary vs. Obama vs. McAmnesty has to be the most pathetic lineup in recorded history; it's not even a two-party election anymore! Regardless of the outcome we end up with a Democrat in the White House at a time when it is least needed and most dangerous to have one. Fantastic."<<

{shudder} Agreed 100%. On the face of it, we look to be going from the frying pan right into the fire.

Michigan newspapers endorsed McCain, and I think he can help the Auto industry and Detroit in general. The same goes with Romney's opposition of CAFE, either of them would be AOK.

McCain giving a shout-out to the Chevy Volt idea...

This thread is why these exist:

While the Lounge is for members only, there are two key points we wish to have our members abide by:

1) Please use office talk. Talk that you would not use around the office, or infront of your boss for that matter, please do not use here on C&G

2) No political talk. There are plenty of forums on the 'net for that. Lets keep C&G free of political talk.

Can this be locked now?

I think we'll let this one slide as long as it remains civil.

This is a very important election, and one which holds major implications for the auto industry.

McCain giving a shout-out to the Chevy Volt idea...

..wouldn't everyone do that, when you don't need a truck?... or some peoples "need" to have a rotating assembly moving the car. (no offense to 10% of our regulars) lol

no, i'm just saying making gas more expensive for people who are on a tight budget won't let those people buy these cars when they come out (unless that gas money is going for tax rebates paying for~70% of the car)...talk about socialism.. anyway.

hey, i'll all for keeping this country running instead of occupying parts of more than 100 countries around the world.

---Los Angeles >... i know that's what the "rules" say, I try to be civil. but this is a huge deal for US manufacturers and ....every citizen, even ones that could benefit/loose around the world.

I think as long as we can avoid the asinine posts attacking one or more candidates, and have an actual adult discussion on politics, it should stay open. The "No Politics' rule is from the Josh-era anyways, it should be amended to "Politics allowed until a flame war erupts."

A Republican president (and congress) oversaw the biggest national security lapse in history, then pissed off a good portion of the Muslim world and increased the national debt, all the while managing to turn the economy into a clusterf@#k, although the latter came to a head under a Democratic congress. Time for the Republicans to re-tool and re-discover the 80% of the country that isn't off to the far right.

BTW: I still love Mike Gravel, the man appears mildly insane, possibly senile, and really grumpy. 4 years of him would be a blast, like having your crazy uncle run the country.

I think as long as we can avoid the asinine posts attacking one or more candidates, and have an actual adult discussion on politics, it should stay open. The "No Politics' rule is from the Josh-era anyways, it should be amended to "Politics allowed until a flame war erupts."

x2

A Republican president (and congress) oversaw the biggest national security lapse in history, then pissed off a good portion of the Muslim world and increased the national debt, all the while managing to turn the economy into a clusterf@#k, although the latter came to a head under a Democratic congress. Time for the Republicans to re-tool and re-discover the 80% of the country that isn't off to the far right.

x2

BTW: I still love Mike Gravel, the man appears mildly insane, possibly senile, and really grumpy. 4 years of him would be a blast, like having your crazy uncle run the country.

See, that's why I don't like him: too much of a chip on his shoulder.

My thing is going down the road of in-depth talks on politics and religion has a bad potential to color opinions between people, open wounds, etc. We already have strong a-- ideologies about things like cars and music that polarize us now. And once those lines are crossed, there really is no turning back (like in the bottomless Pictures thread, for instance). Even sports falls into that slippery slope category.

All of the above have one thing in common: potential to poison the well we all draw from, and start people judging persons and their opinion on one thing based on something totally unrelated, and altering their approach to boot.

No, sir, I don't like it.