Did you forget that BMW is in talks to sell engines and transmissions to both General Motors and Fiat?

Who says it's the V8 they are looking to sell...?

I'd be more inclined to think it's BMW's excellent diesel technology for passenger cars they might be interested in.......

Edited March 5, 200818 yr by The O.C.

Who says it's the V8 they are looking to sell...?

I'd be more inclined to think it's BMW's excellent diesel technology for passenger cars they might be interested in.......

Well, who says it's diesel technology (which GM has)?

My Reasoning... In light of GM recently cancelling their HFV8 program, I think it's BMW's V8 mated to the hybrid powertrains they've been working on together. Especially now that Mercedes Benz is coming out with a Hybrid S-Class that gets 30MPG.

Well, who says it's diesel technology (which GM has)?

My Reasoning... In light of GM recently cancelling their HFV8 program, I think it's BMW's V8 mated to the hybrid powertrains they've been working on together. Especially now that Mercedes Benz is coming out with a Hybrid S-Class that gets 30MPG.

You could be right.....but you know me well enough now.....I can't give up a "fight" that easily.....

Who says it's the V8 they are looking to sell...?

I'd be more inclined to think it's BMW's excellent diesel technology for passenger cars they might be interested in.......

who says it's just one engine?

but why would GM need BMW's diesels when they already have some pretty good ones of their own?

The RDX is priced very well considering the level of equipment you get. At $33K, it's cheaper than both the LR2 and X3, and it comes standard with heated memory 10-way power leather seats, dual zone climate control, Bluetooth, Xenon headlights, paddle shifters, SH-AWD, variable vane turbo geometry, DVD surround sound, IIHS top safety pick, etc.

The RDX is certainly quicker than a 16 year old Roadmaster - 0 to 60 in 6.3 seconds - and gets better fuel economy in spite of AWD and an aggressive final drive (19 mpg, combined, versus 17 mpg, combined, according to the 2008 EPA procedures).

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=9189

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f....nField=Findacar

The 1992 Roadmaster didn't have the LT-1. The 1993 - 1996 Roadmaster wagon however did. Under 2008 EPA guidelines the Roadmaster gets 1mpg less combined than the RDX... however I know from personal experience, over multiple B-bodies, that 25-26mpg highway is normal with these cars. I'm not the only one, these cars are somewhat famous for their mileage. I highly doubt the EPA went out and retested a 1993 Roadmaster, so the estimates they post are estimates of their original estimate.

ANYWAY......

Nobody other than me sees the irony of arguing over 1mpg combined between a brand new Honda 4-cylinder and a 16 year old GM pushrod V8 that has more power, only a 4-speed, and has to haul around 600 lbs more? Prior to the RDX, would you have though you'd be having a sustained argument defending a Honda 4-cylinder/5speed against an old GM V8/4-speed on fuel economy grounds and the best you can come up with is 1mpg combined?

P.S. LT1 Roadmasters run between 6.5 and 6.9 seconds to 60 on a 4-speed. So my '96 Grandma wagon is 1/2 a second slower than your new Acura.... way to go Honda.

but why would GM need BMW's diesels when they already have some pretty good ones of their own?

As far as I know, GM has no passenger-car diesels (from their European arm) that are 50-state compliant yet......BMW does and is getting ready to introduce the 335d, 535d, X5 3.5d (I believe) and the X6 3.5si (or whatever the nomenclature) here in a matter of months....

P.S. LT1 Roadmasters run between 6.5 and 6.9 seconds to 60 on a 4-speed. So my '96 Grandma wagon is 1/2 a second slower than your new Acura.... way to go Honda.

C&D....10-93.....Roadmaster Limited Sedan (lighter than your wagon) road test

0-60 in 7.8secs, curb weight 4,240lbs, C&D observed mileage 22mpg (pretty good.)

C&D....7-07.....SUV Comparo with RDX

0-60 in 6.5secs, curb weight 3,982, C&D observed mileage 16mpg

Your wagon weighs more than the sedan....so likely won't be quicker....and the Impala SS I think had quicker numbers than the Roadmaster in the day probably due to gearing and tires (the Roadmaster road test stated it was really tough to get traction on the launch with the Roadmaster's less-sticky tires.)

As far as I know, GM has no passenger-car diesels (from their European arm) that are 50-state compliant yet......BMW does and is getting ready to introduce the 335d, 535d, X5 3.5d (I believe) and the X6 3.5si (or whatever the nomenclature) here in a matter of months....

all that is missing is the extra emissions equipment that BMW is putting on their engines. Lutz said in a personal email exchange between he and I that GM could bring it 50 state compliant, it just costs money for the extra hardware.

C&D....10-93.....Roadmaster Limited Sedan (lighter than your wagon) road test

0-60 in 7.8secs, curb weight 4,240lbs, C&D observed mileage 22mpg (pretty good.)

C&D....7-07.....SUV Comparo with RDX

0-60 in 6.5secs, curb weight 3,982, C&D observed mileage 16mpg

Your wagon weighs more than the sedan....so likely won't be quicker....and the Impala SS I think had quicker numbers than the Roadmaster in the day probably due to gearing and tires (the Roadmaster road test stated it was really tough to get traction on the launch with the Roadmaster's less-sticky tires.)

there are more examples out there than just stuff from Honda and Driver......I think there were 3 different rear ends for the B-bodies... it matters.

The 1992 Roadmaster didn't have the LT-1. The 1993 - 1996 Roadmaster wagon however did. Under 2008 EPA guidelines the Roadmaster gets 1mpg less combined than the RDX... however I know from personal experience, over multiple B-bodies, that 25-26mpg highway is normal with these cars. I'm not the only one, these cars are somewhat famous for their mileage. I highly doubt the EPA went out and retested a 1993 Roadmaster, so the estimates they post are estimates of their original estimate.

At the same time, I highly doubt the EPA differentiated a Roadmaster from a Roadmaster wagon. Surely an extra 400 lbs would have made some dent in fuel economy, yet the figures are identical. If you use the old procedure to compare both vehicles, the RDX still comes out ahead.

ANYWAY......

Nobody other than me sees the irony of arguing over 1mpg combined between a brand new Honda 4-cylinder and a 16 year old GM pushrod V8 that has more power, only a 4-speed, and has to haul around 600 lbs more? Prior to the RDX, would you have though you'd be having a sustained argument defending a Honda 4-cylinder/5speed against an old GM V8/4-speed on fuel economy grounds and the best you can come up with is 1mpg combined?

P.S. LT1 Roadmasters run between 6.5 and 6.9 seconds to 60 on a 4-speed. So my '96 Grandma wagon is 1/2 a second slower than your new Acura.... way to go Honda.

Still you're comparing apples to oranges. All-wheel drive results in inherent power and fuel economy losses. If you compare the RDX to something closer in age and price, like the SRX V6, the RDX beats it in city fuel economy (by 3 mpg, 17 vs. 14), as does the heavier 300-hp MDX.

there are more examples out there than just stuff from Honda and Driver......I think there were 3 different rear ends for the B-bodies... it matters.

To the best of my knowledge, Car & Driver has used consistent testing procedures for a long time....therefore, it's somewhat apples-to-apples to compare two sets of numbers from the same source.

There two different rear-ends with the Roadmaster....the base 2.56 ratio and a slightly shorter one on Roadmasters equipped with the trailer-towing package. However, the shorter ratio would most likely affect fuel economy for any increase in low-speed grunt. Even if your wagon had the lower ratio, it would need it to compensate for the higher curb weight relative to the sedan.

C&D....10-93.....Roadmaster Limited Sedan (lighter than your wagon) road test

0-60 in 7.8secs, curb weight 4,240lbs, C&D observed mileage 22mpg (pretty good.)

C&D....7-07.....SUV Comparo with RDX

0-60 in 6.5secs, curb weight 3,982, C&D observed mileage 16mpg

Your wagon weighs more than the sedan....so likely won't be quicker....and the Impala SS I think had quicker numbers than the Roadmaster in the day probably due to gearing and tires (the Roadmaster road test stated it was really tough to get traction on the launch with the Roadmaster's less-sticky tires.)

Hmm... 6/04 C&D minivan comparison

Odyssey 0-60: 7.5 seconds, curb weight 4409 lbs, 18/25 old-EPA mpg

Hmm... 6/04 C&D minivan comparison

Odyssey 0-60: 7.5 seconds, curb weight 4409 lbs, 18/25 old-EPA mpg

Oooooo.....

Oldsmoboi was just

Oooooo.....

Oldsmoboi was just

uh... how? I'm not trying to say that the Roadmaster is better than any of these Hondas. I'm saying that the Honda mileage from a 4 cylinder is pathetic.

uh... how? I'm not trying to say that the Roadmaster is better than any of these Hondas. I'm saying that the Honda mileage from a 4 cylinder is pathetic.

Because it's tough to generalize when you are talking about such divergent products......a BOF, older, RWD, station-wagon with a V8.....compared to a CUV, front-drive based L4 Turbo. The better argument is.....how does the RDX compare to the X3, LR2, et al......

What people on here have been trying to say to you is.....the RDX is quicker than your RMW, almost as heavy, but gets worse mileage. However, it's also AWD, sits higher (aerodynamics) etc. Who knows how much that AWD and areodynamic drag has on fuel economy.

With a curb weight at almost 4,000lbs, I'd say the performance from the RDX is spectacular....especially from an L4.....even if it's a turbo (and I'm not particularly an RDX fan either.)

Also remember cars and trucks have gotten way heavier in general since the early 90's.....RDX isn't overly bulky compared to it's contemporary competititors. Hell, a fully-loaded CTS now weighs about as much as that Roadmaster Sedan that was in the '93 issue of C&D......!!!!!!!!

(edit: BTW....not "hating" here on the RoadToaster......I loved the Roadmaster Sedan LT1 with trailer-towing package. It was one of my favorite company cars to have when I was at Buick. I'd even get the dealership service department to flip the whitewall Eagle GA tires....included in Y92 TT package....inside-out....so I'd have blackwalls to go with the alloy wheels.)

Edited March 5, 200818 yr by The O.C.

I'm saying that the Honda mileage from a 4 cylinder is pathetic.

If it was "Honda mileage from a 4 cylinder" in a Civic, sure it would be pathetic. But this is a turbocharged 4cyl in an SUV with an aggressive clutch-based AWD system. \\

If it was "Honda mileage from a 4 cylinder" in a Civic, sure it would be pathetic. But this is a turbocharged 4cyl in an SUV with an aggressive clutch-based AWD system. \\

QFT.

i could see GM buying ultra v8's from BMW. BMW would just make sure they were their tier 2 engines. Which would still be darn good. and some diesels i could see also. GM would know they are done and good for the 2 mode hyblid.

i would wonder WHY bmw would team with GM but maybe BMW is starting to buckle in terms of remaining independent. And they would probably prefer to team with Americanos to fight the Asians rather than go it alone and end up getting swallowed by hoyotha and lexus.

Will this thread ever die?

Will this thread ever die?

Probably not as long as Reg, OC, Drew, and Siegen post at C&G.

ooo almost 20 pages, looks like the word association thread has some competition now hehe

Edited March 6, 200818 yr by cletus8269

I can't remember if I ever commented in this thread.

Just in case I didn't: That Acura has caught a bad case of bland.

Now I feel better.

Will this thread ever die?

the previous gen RL hung around like a wart and i think this one will too. so, to answer your question, probably not.

Probably not as long as Reg, OC, Drew, and Siegen post at C&G.

<smooch>

Love you too, hon.....

If it was "Honda mileage from a 4 cylinder" in a Civic, sure it would be pathetic. But this is a turbocharged 4cyl in an SUV with an aggressive clutch-based AWD system. \\

Would you explain it away like this if the vehicle in question were say.... the Cadillac BRX?

I'm guessing no.

Then of course, if it were a Cadillac, we'd have SMK in here ranting about how it should be a diesel electric hybrid fueled by baby smiles, have a 37 speed transmission, weigh less than 2,500lbs, and be priced like the CRV because Cadillac isn't A-tier.

I'm just hatin the fact that you guys are giving the "Fuel Efficiency Leader" a pass on this...... and this thread will arise from the dead if I start seeing rants about BRX fuel economy.

I can't remember if I ever commented in this thread.

Just in case I didn't: That Acura has caught a bad case of bland.

Now I feel better.

...agree on the bland, Camino.

The SRX would be my choice if I were in that market.

Chris

the previous gen RL hung around like a wart and i think this one will too. so, to answer your question, probably not.

Watching these guys argue is half the fun of coming to C&G.

Chris

Would you explain it away like this if the vehicle in question were say.... the Cadillac BRX?

I'm guessing no.

Then of course, if it were a Cadillac, we'd have SMK in here ranting about how it should be a diesel electric hybrid fueled by baby smiles, have a 37 speed transmission, weigh less than 2,500lbs, and be priced like the CRV because Cadillac isn't A-tier.

I'm just hatin the fact that you guys are giving the "Fuel Efficiency Leader" a pass on this...... and this thread will arise from the dead if I start seeing rants about BRX fuel economy.

Enter Sarcasm mode

...you forget that even on a GM board GM can do no right and Honda can do no wrong. Now go back and re-learn the first lesson about what EVERYBODY knows about cars.....

Exit Sarcasm mode

Chris

<smooch>

Love you too, hon.....

You are gonna be poked at soon.

Enter Sarcasm mode

...you forget that even on a GM board GM can do no right and Honda can do no wrong. Now go back and re-learn the first lesson about what EVERYBODY knows about cars.....

Exit Sarcasm mode

Chris

GM could produce a fully working model of Christ himself and people would still complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot.

Sadly, I think people here are sometimes too hard on GM. They really are trying to turn around and build great products, and I think we all forget that from time to time.

When people are kinder to GM products at the Miata forum than they are here, we have a problem.

Chris

Edited March 6, 200818 yr by 66Stang

I think some of the people here who claim to be fans are actually just trolls from other brands.

GM could produce a fully working model of Christ himself and people would still complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot.

TRUE AND i'M ROLLING!

GM could produce a fully working model of Christ himself and people would still complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot.

That's because I'm an Atheist, bitch!

GM could produce a fully working model of Christ himself and people would still complain that the water to wine function only dispenses merlot.

Or the media could write a very positive review and people would still complain that the photography was intentionally unflattering.. or somethign like that

I think some of the people here who claim to be fans are actually just trolls from other brands.

Well....I just KNOW you aren't talking about ME......

I've "voted" for GM way too many times with my wallet......some very recently even.......

That's because I'm an Atheist, bitch!

I am also, and hello you spelled atheist right!

Excellent!

Chris

Well....I just KNOW you aren't talking about ME......

I've "voted" for GM way too many times with my wallet......some very recently even.......

No, your safe.

Chris

I am also, and hello you spelled atheist right!

Excellent!

Chris

Me too...though I like the terms 'secular humanist' and 'functional realist' also..

As far as cars, I consider myself brand-agnostic...I like cars in general...an all-around car enthusiast, not particularly fixated on one brand or another...

As far as cars, I consider myself brand-agnostic...I like cars in general...an all-around car enthusiast, not particularly fixated on one brand or another...

Me too.

Although, contrary to what many people on here think, I do have a unique affinity for GM (and Buick in general) due to my previous career with Buick....and my Mom worked for Buick too for many years.....I grew up with GM cars...!

'brand agnostic'

LOL

I think moltar just coined a new phrase! wait till the press and marketing types get a hold of it!

Me too...though I like the terms 'secular humanist' and 'functional realist' also..

As far as cars, I consider myself brand-agnostic...I like cars in general...an all-around car enthusiast, not particularly fixated on one brand or another...

I'm an existentialist.

As far as cars, I have no preference, as long as the company is headed by an engineer and not a bean counter. :AH-HA_wink:

I think some of the people here who claim to be fans are actually just trolls from other brands.

And there are many who who need to lay off the GM Kool-aid and attend some recovery meetings.

That's because I'm an Atheist, bitch!

Come one man, you have to have faith and believe in something! What happened after you die for example!

Or the media could write a very positive review and people would still complain that the photography was intentionally unflattering.. or somethign like that

??

Me too.

Although, contrary to what many people on here think, I do have a unique affinity for GM (and Buick in general) due to my previous career with Buick....and my Mom worked for Buick too for many years.....I grew up with GM cars...!

Count me in, I tend to love cars in general, although I may think that some are better than others, it's safe to say that die-hard Toyota and GM fans are equally drinking their own kool-aid.

And there are many who who need to lay off the GM Kool-aid and attend some recovery meetings.

Read above comment!

Come one man, you have to have faith and believe in something! What happened after you die for example!

You become plant/worm/bacteria food.

Worm food. I think it is ultimate hubris to believe God would have made us in his/her image. Why bother? And why would God even have an 'image.' Does he have a PR firm, too?

I am a Christedelphian, raised as a Jehovah's Witness and married to a Scientologist. Now that would make for screwd up kids, wouldn't it?

I can see this thread going places that have nothing to do with a mediocre Honda very quickly...

let me get this thread back on track. i saw the new 09 RL at the auto show today. the bangle butt revision helps. the front guillotine grille is horrible. overall, the car will at least get noticed now, but that front is a joke.

OK....back to RL....

Honda....get a CLUE...!

Bring us a RWD, V8 powered premium sedan........and call it the Acura Legend...!

NO one will think about G35 for much longer.....