IMBHO: Pontiac G5, Pontiac Torrent

My take-

Solstice-refresh with a better top and a real trunk. Keep the SCCA race winning suspension, the good looks, and the ecotech 4. Put a little more hip and shoulder room in the car-this is another area an already great car could be improved.

Vibe-keep it...

G-5-build a small car on the same chasis as the redesigned Chevy platform I talked about in the Chevrolet thread.

G-8-keep-

Grand prix is already gone or irrelevant, or both. Pontiac needs to develop another sexy midsized car other than the G6, perhaps a really good, slightly smaller g6 replacement for about 2011. Give this car a hybrid option and skip the convertible and the goofy GXP street edition, build instead a reallly sexy 2 door and really comfortable 4 door version of the car.

Test the 4 door version with average sized Americans and make sure they fit...

Chris

Solstice would likely require a new platform to get a real trunk.

The G6 needs to be killed immediately and replaced with a less sucky car.

I wish that market conditions were such that GM could expand Pontiac's lineup, but I think 5 years from now, Pontiac will consist strictly of the G6 (rebadged Epsilon II Malibu), Alpha based coupe, Solstice, and maybe the Vibe.

voted g5. just a 2.4L cobalt.. nothing special, not even a GXP model available

the torrent is getting "moved" to GMC

the g6 will be getting revamped for, '10 or 11... we don't know excatly how good EPII will be yet

grand prix is ended already, right?

and while we gripe about the vibe.. it'll prolly sell well, at least.

the solstice and G8 is more what pontiac needs.. maybe not style wise, but basic idea.

The Solstice and the past-its-prime Grand Prix are the only Pontiacs left that were designed/styled to be Pontaics. The Vibe is a Toyota. The G5 and Torrent are Chevrolets. I'll always believe the G6 was designed to be an Oldsmoble but when the division was killed, they slapped a Pontiac nose on it. The G8 is a Holden. Pontiac exists in name only.

Edited February 16, 200818 yr by usonia

All of them...

...To be replaced with worthy successors.

I'll always believe the G6 was meant to be an Oldsmoble but when the division was killed, they slapped a Pontiac nose on it.

All but G8 and Solstice.

The rest just suck and need to be replaced with superior designs.

The Solstice and the past-its-prime Grand Prix are the only Pontiacs left that were designed/styled to be Pontaics. The Vibe is a Toyota. The G5 and Torrent are Chevrolets. I'll always believe the G6 was designed to be an Oldsmoble but when the division was killed, they slapped a Pontiac nose on it. The G8 is a Holden. Pontiac exists in name only.

How does the G6 look anything like an Olds?

The problem is that for the longest time Pontiac has been just about style over performance (and what style it had was sometimes questionable.) Styling is important, yes, but without truly sporty cars Pontiac hasn't been and won't be taken seriously as a performance division. In this regard, the G8 will be a much better car than the W Grand Prix was.

The GP and Torrent.

The G6 needs to move to Alpha, the G8 needs to be marketed to hell and back, The Solstice needs to add a Targa, a new face and then a new platform in that order and the G5 and Vibe need to be redsigned to be more than clones of volume divisions.

How does the G6 look anything like an Olds?

The problem is that for the longest time Pontiac has been just about style over performance (and what style it had was sometimes questionable.) Styling is important, yes, but without truly sporty cars Pontiac hasn't been and won't be taken seriously as a performance division. In this regard, the G8 will be a much better car than the W Grand Prix was.

Other than the front, I just don't think the G6 has a Pontiac look to it. I honestly think that the car was designed to be an Oldsmobile, but when the decision was made to kill the division, they took the car and put a Pontiac front end on it. The coupe came later and it looks more like it was designed to be a Pontiac from the start. It's all just a personal opinion.

+1

Send out the clones. Replace them with real Pontiacs. The Solstice right now is the purest Pontiac model, with the G6 a close second (good or bad, it has completely unique sheetmetal and interior, making it pure Pontiac). The G8 can stay, but only because there is no Holden sold here to compare it to in terms of looks. The GP is lost, so it doesn't count. The G5 should have been designed back in the day, alongside the Cobalt with its own look, a la Cavalier/Sunfire, but it wasn't. As it is, the G5 reminds me of a Canadian Special Clone (I can't hold Canada in contempt for this, they've been getting thinly disguised Chevys as Pontiacs for decades). The Torrent looks nicer than the Equi, imo, but it too must go, as it is a clone.

I want Pontiac to live for a long time, and be healthy. It has been a part of my life since I could drive, as my first car was a Pontiac, a gift from my grandfather. I sincerely believe Pontiac, as a brand, still has potential to shine, even in these CAFE-tainted times. For a contingent within GM to actively pursue the killing of Pontiac is pure corporate assassination, not only to the Pontiac brand, but eventually to GMNA itself, by association.

Send out the clones. Replace them with real Pontiacs. The Solstice right now is the purest Pontiac model, with the G6 a close second (good or bad, it has completely unique sheetmetal and interior, making it pure Pontiac). The G8 can stay, but only because there is no Holden sold here to compare it to in terms of looks. The GP is lost, so it doesn't count. The G5 should have been designed back in the day, alongside the Cobalt with its own look, a la Cavalier/Sunfire, but it wasn't. As it is, the G5 reminds me of a Canadian Special Clone (I can't hold Canada in contempt for this, they've been getting thinly disguised Chevys as Pontiacs for decades). The Torrent looks nicer than the Equi, imo, but it too must go, as it is a clone.

I want Pontiac to live for a long time, and be healthy. It has been a part of my life since I could drive, as my first car was a Pontiac, a gift from my grandfather. I sincerely believe Pontiac, as a brand, still has potential to shine, even in these CAFE-tainted times. For a contingent within GM to actively pursue the killing of Pontiac is pure corporate assassination, not only to the Pontiac brand, but eventually to GMNA itself, by association.

The idea of RWD Pontiac was sign of relevance. Mixed Pontiac is nothing but rebadges. If that exists, GM Euro Boys will try to influence to kill it. The next G6 should not be a Epsilon but an Alpha. Like you said, make them a 4-5 RWD car brand and keep it. If Pontiac can bring successful 300k volume it will be a nice niche brand. It should be Performance of Germans at price of Koreans and quality of Japanese (perceptions wise) with DNA of America. I had started a thread for what the next G6 should be a while back, and most of us agree it should be similar to the concept of old 3er with more performance. I do not mind Alphas having four bangers all the way to GXP version to save cafe. But they should be fun and performance oriented.

The Ecotec engine has so much power potential, while remaining fuel efficient. Have we seen everything from the Ecotec engine family? I think not. The Alpha project promises to be such a fun platform, it is purely made for Pontiac at the lower price points, and it could be a Cadillac at the higher.

Hopefully, Volt will not be smoke and mirrors, and lives up to its production targets. Gamma and Delta II can house small-displacement gas and diesel engines to get us well over the 35 mpg standard. Give Buick and Chevrolet a Delta II, and Chevrolet an attractive Gamma family of 3-and 5-door hatches to sell... but give Pontiac the Alpha platform... oh my God, it is so right for Pontiac.

I don't think the concept of the G5 should go away, but the car as it is should. Pontiac needs a car the same size but done with more flare and in rear wheel drive.

The Vibe just doesn't fit and needs to be tossed.

The Torrent is a waste of the Pontiac badge. No explination needed.

I finally voted: I wouldn't kill the G8 or the Solstice, I'd let them meet their fate naturally (whatever that fate might be). All the others should be killed, no mercy, no remorse.

Edited February 17, 200818 yr by ZL-1

I think people who do not even live in North America should be excluded from having an opinion in this thread.

I think people who do not even live in North America should be excluded from having an opinion in this thread.

What happened to free speech?

You don't have to listen to me ZL-1, I'm just bitching because certain things appear to be happening that I am not happy with at GM. Pontiac, being an NA-only brand, should have its fate decided by North Americans, that's all I'm saying.

Edited February 17, 200818 yr by ocnblu

Then Australians at Holden could decide they don't want to send any G8s to NA because they feel they can sell more Luminas/Caprices to Arabs and to the Chinese, right? That'd be old GM again: a bunch of local companies each running in a different direction.

Like it or not, GM has to go over the new regulation hurdles. They have to assess how to do it, and think that's what's happening at this point. One thing is certain: they won't be able to please all the people all the time.

I enjoy reading ZL-1's opinions on these issues because he's smart and more objective than we Americans are.

What happened to free speech?

If you're not a citizen of america, you don't enjoy it's freedoms

:AH-HA_wink:

Edited February 17, 200818 yr by FUTURE_OF_GM

ehaase, ha, but he hasn't lived here in the USA where the brand is based. How could he be expected to have an informed opinion on Pontiac when he cannot buy one, nor has he been around them? How can I have an informed opinion on Vauxhall, for example, when all I get to do is look at them in pictures?

ZL-1 is informed enough to know that GM can't afford to give Pontiac anything more than Holdens and rebadges of cars from other brands. I, with my simple mind, know enough that Vauxhall is nothing more than Opels for the British market. I also wonder if GM was wise in spending all this money the last few years on Saturn.

I don't look at the Solstice or G6 as "rebadges" of other brands' vehicles. Each has its own exterior sheetmetal and interior, with platforms only shared with other brands. GM could give Pontiac the Alpha platform in coupe, convertible, sedan and sportwagon bodystyles, with their own sheetmetal and interior, and I'd be happy. Cadillac and Chevrolet versions of the platform here in NA would not be "rebadges" of Pontiac's cars. If the G8 turns out to be a short-lived product due to governmental overstepping, I'd be happy to see Pontiac with an entry-level Mini fighter, Kappa roadster and hatchback, and an Alpha family. The brand could be sustained profitably as part of BPG, aimed at the youth market. All Pontiac needs is a commitment from the parent corporation to make it happen.

Oh yeah, my simple mind knows what Vauxhall is, too, but I am not around Opels on a daily basis (except maybe now for the Astra). I have no history with Opel. All I know is what I read, that's not the same as being around the product daily.

Edited February 17, 200818 yr by ocnblu

The only "re-badge" Pontiac has in the true sense of the word is the G5.

No other division at GM has a Vibe clone, the Sky is as much of a Solstice clone as the Escalade is of a Tahoe (Which means, it's not) The G8 is entirely unique in platform AND execution, the Torrent is borderline (And will be addressed soon enough) and the G6 is, for all intents and purposes, more unique than ever now that the Malibu and Aura are on the same wave length.

But now, it seems that even remotely similar cars are re-badges if it's a domestic company. Hmmm... It's the same double standard we're used to. Toyota can peddle a Camry as a Lexus all day, but at GM a Pontiac has to be 100% unique from a Chevrolet.

The only "re-badge" Pontiac has in the true sense of the word is the G5.

I wasn't referring to Pontiac's current lineup, I was referring to the rumor that the next G6 will be an Epsilon II Malibu rebadge.

Whaaaat? An Alpha Pontiac with the 1.4L turbo Ecotec and six speed manual as base powertrain could be very interesting, imo.

I am mostly a fan of the 1960's and 1970's Pontiacs with big V8's.

I can see why Pontiac fans want an Alpha platform family of cars, but I don't know whether GM could make a profit on such cars.

Edited February 17, 200818 yr by ehaase

I am mostly a fan of the 1960's and 1970's Pontiacs with big V8's.

I can see why Pontiac fans want an Alpha platform family of cars, but I don't know whether GM could make a profit on such cars.

Sure they can, if they can have Chevrolet, Cadillac and Holden versions of it.