That should pretty much eradicate every SUV and pick-up truck sold over there, then.

The proportions of a truck or SUV allow an entirely different sort of styling parameter. And, no, they don't look bull-nosed to me. Well, except for the Tundra with its pig snout.

On a car, this looks like a zit on the end of a nose. Why should we suffer such a styling affront simply because you Europeans have no choice?

I honestly can't see why you would argue this point.

European cars would all look better without this silly regulation. I certainly can't see why we should also be subjected to it.

The proportions of a truck or SUV allow an entirely different sort of styling parameter. And, no, they don't look bull-nosed to me. Well, except for the Tundra with its pig snout.

On a car, this looks like a zit on the end of a nose. Why should we suffer such a styling affront simply because you Europeans have no choice?

I honestly can't see why you would argue this point.

European cars would all look better without this silly regulation. I certainly can't see why we should also be subjected to it.

Sorry mate, but there isn't a single modern SUV or pick-up truck sold in the States - or anywhere else, for that matter - which looks even remotely attractive.

As for the European legislation, it's because here we tend to have more pedestrians even in relatively small urban areas, and the designs are developed to deal with legislation concerning pedestrian impacts.

Sorry mate, but there isn't a single modern SUV or pick-up truck sold in the States - or anywhere else, for that matter - which looks even remotely attractive.

As for the European legislation, it's because here we tend to have more pedestrians even in relatively small urban areas, and the designs are developed to deal with legislation concerning pedestrian impacts.

Have to disagree on the trucks, but they are a very American taste that I wouldn't expect to appeal to you.

I know the reasons for the regulations over there, but that in no way explains why you would wish such things upon us. You must know that it creates a styling nightmare. Such protrusions on the front of a car are anything but attractive. It is an interesting reversal of the situation in the early '70s when our bumper regulations ruined the style of both domestic and import cars here.

Sorry mate, but there isn't a single modern SUV or pick-up truck sold in the States - or anywhere else, for that matter - which looks even remotely attractive.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. I find that there are some pleasantly designed trucks and SUVs out there.

Did you though, by the way, perhaps try to look at an SUV or pickup sold in the United States besides the Toyota Tundra? j/k

As for the European legislation, it's because here we tend to have more pedestrians even in relatively small urban areas, and the designs are developed to deal with legislation concerning pedestrian impacts.

I have an issue of Car magazine which had an article within it concerning the new legislation. I found it to be an interesting piece of journalism and my interest is piqued in watching how designers, and the engineers alongside them, will work around this government regulation like the old five-mph bumpers that were a mandatory requirement here in the United States decades ago.

It all boils down to how more tightly conformed/compacted Europe is when compared to the United States. Because European countries are not of a vast expanse like the United States is, some people opt to walk to work or to shopping and live within a short distance to do so.

Edited April 29, 200817 yr by YellowJacket894

Not that it really matters in the context of this discussion, but I do wonder what the scope of the "pedestrian issue" was in Europe prior to these regulations.

Such collisions are uncommon here.

Not that it really matters in the context of this discussion, but I do wonder what the scope of the "pedestrian issue" was in Europe prior to these regulations.

Such collisions are uncommon here.

Perhaps I will dig up that issue of Car I have and take a refresher course regarding that regulation.

Have to disagree on the trucks, but they are a very American taste that I wouldn't expect to appeal to you.

I know the reasons for the regulations over there, but that in no way explains why you would wish such things upon us. You must know that it creates a styling nightmare. Such protrusions on the front of a car are anything but attractive. It is an interesting reversal of the situation in the early '70s when our bumper regulations ruined the style of both domestic and import cars here.

If there's something we should agree on, it's that American and European tastes largely remain light years apart, and personally I'm very comfortable with that status quo. I'd be particularly angry if Europeans began driving leviathan 5 litre 4x4 monstrosities in their droves, with scant regard for their collective impact on oil demand or the level of pollution from their machines. The UK has already beaten its 2012 Kyoto emissions target - a good thing.

Do I wish European products on Americans? Not at all, I'm indifferent as to whether any products designed and built in Europe are sold over there or not, but the more we do export benefits our balance of payments. What's important to me here in the car industry is that as Europeans, we use more common sense by demanding ever more efficient cars, and over the past decade or so there's clearly been demand here in that direction.

Edited April 29, 200817 yr by aatbloke

Not that it really matters in the context of this discussion, but I do wonder what the scope of the "pedestrian issue" was in Europe prior to these regulations.

Such collisions are uncommon here.

That's because you simply don't have the scale of traffic density/congestion that we do.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. I find that there are some pleasantly designed trucks and SUVs out there.

Did you though, by the way, perhaps try to look at an SUV or pickup sold in the United States besides the Toyota Tundra? j/k

I have an issue of Car magazine which had an article within it concerning the new legislation. I found it to be an interesting piece of journalism and my interest is piqued in watching how designers, and the engineers alongside them, will work around this government regulation like the old five-mph bumpers that were a mandatory requirement here in the United States decades ago.

It all boils down to how more tightly conformed/compacted Europe is when compared to the United States. Because European countries are not of a vast expanse like the United States is, some people opt to walk to work or to shopping and live within a short distance to do so.

It's more to do with the fact that European cities were - for the most part - laid out before the internal combustion engine existed, and many urban road layouts today follow ancient byways. Not only that, zoning regulations are different; in the UK, for example, land is roughly divided between building land, agricultural land (which isn't easy to be re-zoned for building) and green belt land (which is very strictly managed). As a result, you tend not to see the vast urban sprawl that you do in the States, but instead, you instantaneously go from countryside to a dense urban landscape. Coupled with population density, there are also more cars covering less roadway. For example, the UK has roughly one-twentieth the amount of roadway which exists in the United States, yet little more than one-sixth the number of motor vehicles using it. Congestion is therefore an enormous problem on a nationwide scale.

That's because you simply don't have the scale of traffic density/congestion that we do.

I understand the differences, but how much of a problem was there with pedestrian collisions?

If there's something we should agree on, it's that American and European tastes largely remain light years apart, and personally I'm very comfortable with that status quo. I'd be particularly angry if Europeans began driving 5 litre monstrosities in their droves, with scant regard for their impact on oil demand or the level of pollution from their machines. Do I wish European products on Americans? Not at all, I'm indifferent as to whether any products designed and built in Europe are sold over there or not. What's important to me here in the car industry is that as Europeans, we use more common sense by demanding more efficient cars, and in the past few years there's clearly been demand here in that direction.

You had to know that I'd take issue with much of this post, but I'm sure you know where as well so I won't belabor the point.

I will say that certain designs on both sides of the Atlantic should (and should have) made the crossing. I would hate to think that the E-type Jag, for example, might have been kept from us.

You had to know that I'd take issue with much of this post, but I'm sure you know where as well so I won't belabor the point.

I will say that certain designs on both sides of the Atlantic should (and should have) made the crossing. I would hate to think that the E-type Jag, for example, might have been kept from us.

Take issue with it or not, it's the truth. The world is a very different one from the days of the E-Type, and as car enthusiasts we should realise that in the next ten years, it will be as different again.

Take issue with it or not, it's the truth. The world is a very different one from the days of the E-Type, and as car enthusiasts we should realise that in the next ten years, it will be as different again.

Obviously.

But that's not really the point. I only used the E-Type as an example because I consider it a rolling work of art. I might just as easily used a current Aston-Martin, the point being that some cars should make the trip.

Obviously.

But that's not really the point. I only used the E-Type as an example because I consider it a rolling work of art. I might just as easily used a current Aston-Martin, the point being that some cars should make the trip.

It was my point.

I quite like it. Holden needs it, but won't get it.