McCain is just plain old, though. Same old right wing BS, even though he has the 'maverick' label. I'm sick of the conservatives, 'values voters', the 'God and Guns' crowd and all their BS....

I would rather have more of what I know than some young senators scary change plan. I am sick of people who belief Obama is the second coming of christ. He is no more than a politican and I think I am safe in saying that change can happen for the worse or better. I would much rather have a moderate maverick than a far left person. Once again neither extreme's are good and I am proud to be a value voter, and in the God and Guns crowd. Being auto people I can't believe some of you would vote for people that don't want domestic drilling and supports raising cafe. Then again that is just me.

There is more to life than cars, low CAFE and increased domestic drilling are not something this country needs in the long term.

Yes and it is an important part of my life. I understand we need a solution someday to forigen oil but domestic drilling in the mean time makes ALOT of sense. Still age is just a number and it won't stop me from voting for the lesser of the two evils. I am going to stop ranting because obviously this is not solving anything.

comment removed.

Edited August 25, 200817 yr by loki

i'm not disagreeing...much, but some think life beginning at conception is a radical idea, even though it's science.

Not sure what science you've studied, but I remember clearly from the biology and biotechnology (applied genetics) courses I took that the processes of mitosis and myosis seem to present a pretty solid case that "life" continues through replication and doesn't ever "begin" anew. Life can end, but it never really "begins."

The real debate is "at what point do you consider the clump of cells to be a separate entity"...at some point during the pregnancy, or when the umbilical cord is severed and the fetus is no longer attached to the mother?

You welcome the NWO?

NWO = New World Order, right? That seems just a little extreme for what Satty's saying...

I find it weird that people are paying so much attention to 'domestic drilling' , and not Obama's rejection of 'dirty oil' , especially because a massive percentage of America's energy comes Alberta's oil sands.

I find it weird that people are paying so much attention to 'domestic drilling' , and not Obama's rejection of 'dirty oil' , especially because a massive percentage of America's energy comes Alberta's oil sands.

Well, the first step is to get most of the oil coming from NA sources, and not other countries/continents with power brokers who have animosity towards us. THEN the concentration will shift on reducing the fossil fuel consumption to a bare minimum.

Everyone, please read "lounge rule #2" toward the top of this page. Thanks.

Everyone, please read "lounge rule #2" toward the top of this page. Thanks.

And we've already established that as long as it doesn't become incendiary and uncivilized, that "Rule #2" is a relic from the Josh era and isn't really necessary. We had a previous thread that discussed this.

So far, I see informed debate from all sides of the political spectrum. If the mods disagree, then that's cool...but I personally think it's silly to be a nanny on here. If you're not comfortable with a particular thread, then don't participate in it.

Edited August 25, 200817 yr by Croc

Not sure what science you've studied, but I remember clearly from the biology and biotechnology (applied genetics) courses I took that the processes of mitosis and myosis seem to present a pretty solid case that "life" continues through replication and doesn't ever "begin" anew. Life can end, but it never really "begins."

The real debate is "at what point do you consider the clump of cells to be a separate entity"...at some point during the pregnancy, or when the umbilical cord is severed and the fetus is no longer attached to the mother?

...."the real debate"... yes, but if it's human DNA and not the same as in the rest of the body, how scientifically can that be the same person? there are examples that defy this, kimeras and such. But again. if the cells are not genetically the mother's or the father's, but a combination, that's what makes an individual. otherwise you'd never become an "individual".

NWO = New World Order, right? That seems just a little extreme for what Satty's saying...

that's why i "erased" what i said, it was in haste.

Everyone, please read "lounge rule #2" toward the top of this page. Thanks.

I can understand why you want that....enforced, but open conversation about things that matter is what is missing from most of public life. i totally <3 the , but isn't it a disservice to not exercise what the was founded on?

"(we gave you) a republic, if you can keep it"- Ben Franklin.

edited: for accidental bumbling. haha

Edited August 25, 200817 yr by loki

Debating politics is no different than debating Star Wars. Loki and others may go back and forth with me and others about taxation, deficit spending, yadda yadda and its no different than the guys at the comic book store arguing over Jar Jar Binks, that is, our debating it wont have a real effect on it, and we know that, but discussion and debate brings information and enlightenment.

too bad clinton (bill) couldn't be in office again to test that theory. feed him some viagra along with his metamucil and i'd bet he'd be game to at least test out whether he could have a redux of his last go round

We'll have to wait until 2018 to see what Bill can do at age 72.

Everyone, please read "lounge rule #2" toward the top of this page. Thanks.

Does that mean we should not discuss Level Playing Fields, CAFE, CO2 Regs, etc, since they are all political issues too blu? Where do you draw the line?

You cannot ask him that because then you'll be discussing the politics of C&G.

>>>According to an analysis of the fiscal 2009 House Democratic majority’s federal budget by Brian Riedl of The Heritage Foundation, every American household would pay on average $3,100 more in federal taxes. That amounts to $1.265 trillion more over five years and $3.911 trillion over 10 years. Worse (if that’s possible) the Democratic budget proposal increases discretionary spending by 8 percent and does not eliminate even one wasteful program. It also ignores the coming explosion in the cost of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.<<<

And Biden is a straight-line tax-increase endorser. All the plentiful other issues aside, most Americans simply cannot afford to vote D.

>>>...government auditors spent the last five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them — costing taxpayers $123 billion per year — fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.<<<

Great- so let's INCREASE that with trillions more in taxes to the government ????? Is that the "change" BO's been droning on ambiguously about?? No thanks.

Does anyone think he's going to actually help improve things for the common man? NOW I smell the BS...

>>>According to an analysis of the fiscal 2009 House Democratic majority’s federal budget by Brian Riedl of The Heritage Foundation, every American household would pay on average $3,100 more in federal taxes. That amounts to $1.265 trillion more over five years and $3.911 trillion over 10 years. Worse (if that’s possible) the Democratic budget proposal increases discretionary spending by 8 percent and does not eliminate even one wasteful program. It also ignores the coming explosion in the cost of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.<<<

And Biden is a straight-line tax-increase endorser. All the plentiful other issues aside, most Americans simply cannot afford to vote D.

>>>...government auditors spent the last five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them — costing taxpayers $123 billion per year — fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.<<<

Great- so let's INCREASE that with trillions more in taxes to the government ????? Is that the "change" BO's been droning on ambiguously about?? No thanks.

Does anyone think he's going to actually help improve things for the common man? NOW I smell the BS...

And you think the Republicans will do any better? Look at the disaster of the last 8 years...the economy in a tailspin, massive increase in the deficit, run away spending, etc...the Republican party couldn't care less about the 'common man'..they are only interested in serving their corporate masters.

Edited August 25, 200817 yr by moltar

I think this thread has gone on long enough... if there are members who want to discuss politics, I'm sure there are some political forums to do so.