Hmm seems fair.

I'm just interested in the federal taxes.

I'm just interested in the federal taxes.

Uh huh. So state taxes are irrelevant right?

Uh huh. So state taxes are irrelevant right?

When discussing Federal policies? Yeah, pretty much. Companies can jump from state to state for more favorable business climates far more easily than they can jump nation to nation.

McCain really needs to knock off the eye rolls. They're going to go down like G.H.W. Bush's watch looking.

Uh huh. So state taxes are irrelevant right?

I'm sorry, I'm watching a debate for president of the United States... not one for Governor of PA

On a superficial note, McCain's whistling every time he pronounces an "S" sound is getting beyond irritating. It's like he isn't enunciating or something.

Hmmm Obama wants us to help those single mothers who decided not to have an abortion. why should >>I<< have to pay because some idiots decided to screw around? Why should >>I<< have to subsidize their abortion for that matter?

Its YOUR fault YOU deal with it... unless of course said person was raped... that's a different story.

I just love hearing a lot of conservative arguments in black and white...they tend to get comincal real quickly. To paraphrase:

WORLD IS IN BLACK AND WHITE...NO GRAY. X IS BAD BAD BAD TERRIBLE AWFUL MUST STAMP OUT!!!!! well, except in case Y, because that would be bad if we did that, but...OTHERWISE X IS BAD BAD BAD MUST KILL OUT!! but then case Z comes around, so we recognize that, but OTHER THAN Y AND Z, X IS BAD BAD BAD!!!!!!!!

It's like there's this cleaving to a false reality where no gray exists on any issue anytime...instead of admitting ambiguity can exist, we get these convoluted arguments of NO THIS (except in this situation or that situation).

It's just so funny...

Hmmm Obama wants us to help those single mothers who decided not to have an abortion. why should >>I<< have to pay because some idiots decided to screw around? Why should >>I<< have to subsidize their abortion for that matter?

Its YOUR fault YOU deal with it... unless of course said person was raped... that's a different story.

Well they better hurry up and die and reduce the surplus population.

Seriously, could get any more scrooge like?

I just love hearing a lot of conservative arguments in black and white...they tend to get comincal real quickly.

You mean like "pro-abortion"

At no point have we seen a grace note from McCain. When dealing with the negativism of the campaign, it would not have killed him to seem genuinely horrified at calls for violence rather than offended that anyone dare criticize him or some of his supporters. Or to wish Obama well. It's this lack of generosity of spirit that he lacks and that people want in a president. Obama still manages to say when he agrees with or admires McCain. In this whole dynamic, Obama seems more secure, more self-controlled, more mature. He is the Alpha Male on this stage, and McCain the bristling teen - aged 72. No wonder women seem to be so disproportionately pro-Obama.

Well they better hurry up and die and reduce the surplus population.

Seriously, could get any more scrooge like?

Okay. If i went out, drank alcohol every day, got cirrhosis of the liver... would YOU pay for my meds? would YOU pay for my liver transplant?

This ENCOURAGES behavior which many consider undesirable, and judging my Obama's tone he finds it unfavorable too.

Lizard tongue again

At no point have we seen a grace note from McCain. When dealing with the negativism of the campaign, it would not have killed him to seem genuinely horrified at calls for violence rather than offended that anyone dare criticize him or some of his supporters. Or to wish Obama well. It's this lack of generosity of spirit that he lacks and that people want in a president. Obama still manages to say when he agrees with or admires McCain. In this whole dynamic, Obama seems more secure, more self-controlled, more mature. He is the Alpha Male on this stage, and McCain the bristling teen - aged 72. No wonder women seem to be so disproportionately pro-Obama.

Women as a % tend to be more liberal. Therefore they would identify with obama even if he was not as eloquent.

Also why men tend to favor McCain.

Okay. If i went out, drank alcohol every day, got cirrhosis of the liver... would YOU pay for my meds? would YOU pay for my liver transplant?

This ENCOURAGES behavior which many consider undesirable, and judging my Obama's tone he finds it unfavorable too.

you think that if there is a support system for adoption or single mothers is put in place, chicks are going to be much more willing to put out? 75% of C&G is going to be pretty happy if Obama gets in office then....

McCain's numbers with men have been dropping.

you think that if there is a support system for adoption or single mothers is put in place, chick are going to be much more willing to put out? 75% of C&G is going to be pretty happy if Obama gets in office then....

Free tang!!!!

you think that if there is a support system for adoption or single mothers is put in place, chick are going to be much more willing to put out? 75% of C&G is going to be pretty happy if Obama gets in office then....

Probably not, but symbolically it is a poor message to send.

"You really shouldn't do this, but if you do then its okay, the people of america will take care of you"

Edited October 16, 200817 yr by Teh Ricer Civic!

Vote Obama! You'll get more sex!

I thought McCain was having a stroke earlier.

One tax change I'd like to see (no one has brought it up) is I think I should be able claim my dog as a dependent....breeders can claim their kids as dependents, why not those of us with furry four-legged 'children' ?

HAHA I didn't even catch this earlier. Palin's son has down syndrome, but McCain keeps saying he has Autism

Obama walked away with this one. McCain was great out of the gate and then just got frustrated and cranky and often wandered around to unrelated topics.

McCain was better than in the two previous debates. That said, Obama still came across as more intelligent and more level headed.

McCain was better than in the two previous debates. That said, Obama still came across as more intelligent and more level headed.

Agreed.

I wanted McCain to do well. I wanted this to be a more exciting fight.

Eloquence does not necessarily make a good leader.

Hitler was quite eloquent you know.

... although hitler did manage to lead his relatively small country to dominate an entire continent... i guess that is good leadership...

I dont know where i am going for this. But Obama did very little to sway me to vote for him.

Edited October 16, 200817 yr by Teh Ricer Civic!

McCain may just have sealed his loss with that crotchety display.

McCain may just have sealed his loss with that crotchety display.

On one forum, someone described his constant blinking as 'butterfly eyes'...the lighting must have been really bothering his eyes. All the smirking was annoying...

Eloquence does not necessarily make a good leader.

Hitler was quite eloquent you know.

... although hitler did manage to lead his relatively small country to dominate an entire continent... i guess that is good leadership...

I dont know where i am going for this. But Obama did very little to sway me to vote for him.

you weren't going to vote for him ever....... wasn't is you who this morning was interested in having Chuck Norris run just because he's a Republican?

McCain lacks the bearing, stature and presence of a statesman. Qualities (among others) Barack Obama possesses in abundance.

McCain seems schizophrenic and the hot monkey-p*ss stink of fear (fear of seeing his dream evaporate) surrounds him.

McCain came out strong, but overall he ended in a condescending and irritated tone. Obama had a few stingers, especially the one relating to the Ayers accusations. Obama nailed the education topic; i was glad to hear that topic covered. I was also glad to hear the issue of free trade brought up.

Oh, and the Joe the plumber thing got very old, very fast. I'm not even convinced that Joe the plumber is a real plumber after Fox totally cherry-picked the sound bytes from that segment, yet McCain kept referencing the guy. It felt forced, like McCain was attempting to reconnect with the American public through yet again another cheeky "Joe Six-pack" type character.

The whole Joe the plumber thing was nothing but a gimmick, IMO.

McCain lacks the bearing, stature and presence of a statesman. Qualities (among others) Barack Obama possesses in abundance.

McCain seems schizophrenic and the hot monkey-p*ss stink of fear (fear of seeing his dream evaporate) surrounds him.

+1. Very well put.

I thought McCain did as well as he could do.

That was the election there folks. Good night and good luck.

CNN poll from the tee-vee: Obama 58, McCain 31.

CBS undecideds: Obama 53, McCain 22.

MSNBC: Obama 84, McCain 15 - this one seems a bit out of wack

Fox News had Obama at 85% about 15 minutes after the debate was over. Curiously, that poll is now missing.

On the CNN undecided panel, 15 thought Obama won, 10 thought McCain won, and 1 didn't vote.

Edited October 16, 200817 yr by mustang84

That was the election there folks. Good night and good luck.

CNN poll from the tee-vee: Obama 58, McCain 31.

CBS undecideds: Obama 53, McCain 22.

MSNBC: Obama 84, McCain 15 - this one seems a bit out of wack

Another poll that was interesting...something about 'likeability' on CNN..a poll of viewers of the debate....Obama was like 75% but McCain was 22%..

I actually thought this debate was more of a draw. I watched on CNN, and overall, undecided women in OH were overwhelmingly more in favor of Obama's stances on issues, though there were several times they liked what McCain said. OH undecided men didn't seem to show much of an overall preference for either candidate, but if I had to pick one, I'd say they were more in tune with McCain, especially regarding Sarah Palin. Duh, go figure.

John McCain is a liar!

Here's the proof Meet 'Joe the Plumber'

Joe the plumber (aka Sam Joe Wurzelbacher) doesn't make anywhere near $250,000 a year. John McCain's whole arguements were based on something that John McCain just made up in his head!!!

Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,00o to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much much profit he would make from the firm.

ugh... Obama is dull.....

All he needs is a chalkboard and an overhead projector and I'm back in a boring Economics 101 class....

Democrats excell at providing candidates that understand the issues but don't have a clue how to get elected.

Republicans excell at providing candidates that understand getting elected but don't have a clue how to run the country.

Take your pick...

Chris

McCain is going to tell us how Palin would be a better president than Biden.

...and then at some later time, he'll tell us how he's going to be responsible and reduce the budget shortfalls and reduce the size of government. Just like reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.....

Chris

"We're seeing Iraqis united as Iraqis." Yes, McCain just said that. Yes: the next president could be even more delusional about Iraq than the current one.

Which when you have sons approaching draft age settles really good with me as a voter.

This just shows how little he learns from his mistakes.

Chris

on paper.....

after deductions it is much lower....

+1

Chris

McCain's numbers with men have been dropping.

Thankfully. They also have been droping amoung hispanics, which bodes well for Obama in florida.

Chris

Best quote of the entire evening......

McCain: "Senator, I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against Bush, you should have run 4 years ago...!"

Thankfully. They also have been droping amoung hispanics, which bodes well for Obama in florida.

Chris

Well the national polls are quickly tightening back up

Best quote of the entire evening......

McCain: "Senator, I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against Bush, you should have run 4 years ago...!"

For most of us, there is NO difference between Bush and McCain. They agree on 95% of everything. In essence McCain is Bush but older and slower.

Well the national polls are quickly tightening back up

What polling data are you looking at?

Rasmussen Tracking 10/13 - 10/15 3000 LV 50 46 Obama +4

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby Tracking 10/13 - 10/15 1208 LV 49 44 Obama +5

Hotline/FD Tracking 10/13 - 10/15 817 LV 49 41 Obama +8

Gallup Tracking (Traditional)* 10/13 - 10/15 2143 LV 49 47 Obama +2

Gallup Tracking (Expanded)* 10/13 - 10/15 2312 LV 51 45 Obama +6

Best quote of the entire evening......

McCain: "Senator, I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against Bush, you should have run 4 years ago...!"

Sorry.

Obama: So the fact of the matter is that if I occasionally have mistaken your policies for George Bush's policies, it's because on the core economic issues that matter to the American people, on tax policy, on energy policy, on spending priorities, you have been a vigorous supporter of President Bush.