http://www.autonews.com/article/20090316/A.../903160330/1142

LOS ANGELES — Not only are Toyota Division's new-vehicle sales plunging, but so are residual values on its used cars and trucks.

That is depriving Toyota of one of its best marketing tools: the healthy residuals the brand long has been able to brag about.

Edited March 16, 200916 yr by FUTURE_OF_GM

OHHH TEH MEDIA BIAS!!!!!!

Pop goes another bubble. *

Pop goes another bubble. *

'bout time.

The article is limited to subscribers, so I can't read it. :[

What that means is that those 450,000 Camries they've been pumping out every year have just lost a lot of value.

What that means is that those 450,000 Camries they've been pumping out every year have just lost a lot of value.

There is beauty in chaos!

But the Toyota commercials keep reminding me of their high resale value! What to think?!

But the Toyota commercials keep reminding me of their high resale value! What to think?!

That Toyota's marketers bend the truth into a mobius strip?

At least Hondas still have value.....

Simple supply and demand. Somebody must have figured out that there may be a glut of silver/grey Camries on the used car lots over the next few years. HELLO!

Welcome to the Big Leagues, Toyota. The myth could only be perpetuated as long as you could generate huge sales gains every year. That's not likely to happen for a while - if ever again.

Simple supply and demand. Somebody must have figured out that there may be a glut of silver/grey Camries on the used car lots over the next few years. HELLO!

Welcome to the Big Leagues, Toyota. The myth could only be perpetuated as long as you could generate huge sales gains every year. That's not likely to happen for a while - if ever again.

Not much of a victory lap for the big "T".

I can see the headlines now,

Death Watch Toyota

toyota got what it asked for. they used to sell to 'well bred intellectuals' but then the moment joe six pack buys them of course they become like grand ams at the auction. the camry became the new grand am and grand prix. and when you see them lined up at the rental place? No duh, this was going to happen. Why the jerks buy into the 'higher resale' thing boggled my mind.

I've had a Sienna and 2 Avalon rentals recently. I'm really unimpressed. For vehicles that are so highly rated by Consumer Reports (ya, they're a joke) I thought fit and finish would at least be average. The Avalon may be the worst put together car I've seen in years...and one had only 300 miles.

toyota got what it asked for. they used to sell to 'well bred intellectuals' but then the moment joe six pack buys them of course they become like grand ams at the auction. the camry became the new grand am and grand prix. and when you see them lined up at the rental place? No duh, this was going to happen. Why the jerks buy into the 'higher resale' thing boggled my mind.

Considering the average age of the Camry driver, I'd say it's more like the Century/Regal.

I've had a Sienna and 2 Avalon rentals recently. I'm really unimpressed. For vehicles that are so highly rated by Consumer Reports (ya, they're a joke) I thought fit and finish would at least be average. The Avalon may be the worst put together car I've seen in years...and one had only 300 miles.

I feel the same way about the Odyssey I rented. I got in and thought, "This is what people rave about? Srsly?!"

I've had a Sienna and 2 Avalon rentals recently. I'm really unimpressed. For vehicles that are so highly rated by Consumer Reports (ya, they're a joke) I thought fit and finish would at least be average. The Avalon may be the worst put together car I've seen in years...and one had only 300 miles.

You really think the average driver (and when I say 'average,' I mean, like 85% of the population) needs or wants a Z06 or Suburban? The Sienna and Odyssey ARE what the average person NEEDS. They don't have a clue what they WANT. Madison Ave. has been convincing them for 25 years that doing switchbacks in the Alps is what they WANT.

Those on C&G who cry doom and gloom every time RWD is cancelled or V-8s are threatened have to understand that the days of those beasts are numbered. This latest round of CAFE ratings, plus inevitable things like GPS systems that the police/insurance lobby will have real-time access to are going to kill any 'fun' in driving. Mark my words.

To most drivers out there, a car is nothing more than an appliance, which is why Consumers Reports has become their bible, and why Toyota has done so well. Frankly, seeing a soccer mom sitting in a Sequoia or Tahoe is just makes me smirk.

There has been nothing impressive about Toyota for years, but like VW, they've earned the respect of the 30-something wannabee Andretti-writers out there who are more impressed by the soft vinyl on a dash then the daily operating expense of a vehicle - because, after all, those writers haven't had to pay for mainenance in years.

inevitable things like GPS systems that the police/insurance lobby will have real-time access to are going to kill any 'fun' in driving.

I will never accept such a thing in any car I own.

This is good news. Can someone post the text of the article? I can't read either.

The article is limited to subscribers, so I can't read it. :[

Oops, I didn't even think about that.

I don't subscribe either...

Edited March 17, 200916 yr by FUTURE_OF_GM

I've had a Sienna and 2 Avalon rentals recently. I'm really unimpressed. For vehicles that are so highly rated by Consumer Reports (ya, they're a joke) I thought fit and finish would at least be average. The Avalon may be the worst put together car I've seen in years...and one had only 300 miles.

LOL...

I honestly didn't think CR could get any worse... Then I read (in the latest car issue) that the Toyota Echo was second in long term quality now...

I literally laughed out loud and pissed off all of the elites in the accompanying coffee shop. (yeah.. Not gonna buy what I can get free, especially if it is of no value. And BTW, the auto rags are getting pretty thin as of late... I predict the Big 3 rags will be bankrupt within 5 years )

I feel the same way about the Odyssey I rented. I got in and thought, "This is what people rave about? Srsly?!"

They've been conditioned to accept this as "best in class" GM could offer a 14K gold interior and it still wouldn't have the "fit and finish" (or other subjective, bull$h! term) of the sushi wagons.

Edited March 17, 200916 yr by FUTURE_OF_GM

I feel the same way about the Odyssey I rented. I got in and thought, "This is what people rave about? Srsly?!"

the odyssey is one of the biggest pieces of crap out there, at least that is the way i felt after i drove one, both of them. the accord in particular is highly overrated also. i drove one again last spring and am like, 'this thing is not that good of a car'.

as a matter of fact, hondas in general are extremely overrated.

Edited March 17, 200916 yr by regfootball

I say the same thing about EVERY Japanese car I get into; "What is the big deal here?" My brother's Acura TL...yawn. His Sienna...pos (been in the shop more times than all of my "JUNKY American Cars" COMBINED)

I had an Accord wagon. It started. It drove. It stopped. It sucked in snow/rain/wind - and boring does not even begin to describe that car. Nothing about owning it made my heart skip a beat every time I saw it or drove it.

I just do not get anything out of the designs or the driving "experience". I do not get the infatuation at all.

as a matter of fact, hondas in general are extremely overrated.

I get to think that every time I drive the BF's CRV and slam the aluminum foil door or have to rev the engine up to 3,500 to maintain speed up a gradual hill at 65mph.

I'm thinking that Honda could have gotten away with putting the Equinox's 3.5 in there, the road noise is loud enough to overpower any of those nasty dirty pushrod sounds.

the odyssey is one of the biggest pieces of crap out there, at least that is the way i felt after i drove one, both of them. the accord in particular is highly overrated also. i drove one again last spring and am like, 'this thing is not that good of a car'.

Discounting the Uplander's other obvious flaws for the moment, I remember the Magz trashing the Uplander's interior. While the Uplander gets no points on style, neither do the Honda nor Toyota. The Uplander's materials, yeah not soft touch, are pretty durable... a must with kids.

What is it with these stupidly mounted gear selectors on the mini-vans?! Just make it column shift or pushbutton. Does the gated shifter on the Sienna really make the driver feel that much sportier?

Oh yeah, and that gray across the dash of the Odyssey? All hard plastic.

Now I'm not saying the Uplander is a better vehicle.... but the Uplander could be had for 20k. Try doing that at the Honda or Toyota dealer and they'd laugh you off the lot.

I feel the same way about the Odyssey I rented. I got in and thought, "This is what people rave about? Srsly?!"

I sat in an Odyssey, and did find a lot of hard plastics. It wasn't the highest trim but I imagine the same hard plastics will be on that model too. I didn't drive it however. I have never driven a minivan and probably never will.

the odyssey is one of the biggest pieces of crap out there, at least that is the way i felt after i drove one, both of them. the accord in particular is highly overrated also. i drove one again last spring and am like, 'this thing is not that good of a car'.

as a matter of fact, hondas in general are extremely overrated.

Care to expand on these comments?

The Corvette is the biggest piece of crap on the road, in my opinion. I couldn't fit comfortably in the non-existent back seats in that thing to save my life. Why would anybody buy such a heap? <= This is an example of how a vehicle's value is relative to a person's needs. So, you think Hondas are in general extremely overrated, and I imagine if your needs are such that the car you own needs to be domestic, then all imports would be extremely overrated in your opinion.

Most comparisons I read these days, from auto rags, comment on how close the competition is getting. No vehicle is rated much higher over another. If the Accord wins a comparo, like it does from time to time, you don't see anyone gushing over it and talking about how it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything. It is generally a very modest win.

If I had to take a stab at the most overrated car, I would pick the new Malibu. Sure it's a great car, but it is also highly overrated. Some people think it is a godsend which single-handedly sends the Camry and Accord back to their maker and will bring GM back. In reality, they are all similar vehicles and none stands out substantially over another.

If I had to take a stab at the most overrated car, I would pick the new Malibu. Sure it's a great car, but it is also highly overrated. Some people think it is a godsend which single-handedly sends the Camry and Accord back to their maker and will bring GM back. In reality, they are all similar vehicles and none stands out substantially over another.

In terms of capability they are all fairly close. In terms of style, the Accord(sedan) and Camry need to go back to the drawing board. The Malibu is doing it's share to help bring GM back. It is selling, retail, at a much higher pace than the previous model.

The Accord has gotten too large. It needs to be downsized a bit and Honda add a car above the Accord to go up against Avalon, Maxima, Taurus, and a future Impala.

I sat in an Odyssey, and did find a lot of hard plastics. It wasn't the highest trim but I imagine the same hard plastics will be on that model too. I didn't drive it however. I have never driven a minivan and probably never will.

In terms of doing the things minivans do, the Odyssey rocks - lots of cupholders, lots of space, comfortable second and third rows, great visibility, great driving position, easy ingress/egress. The Sienna is softer, quieter, and more powerful, but it's not as functional.

You really think the average driver (and when I say 'average,' I mean, like 85% of the population) needs or wants a Z06 or Suburban? The Sienna and Odyssey ARE what the average person NEEDS. They don't have a clue what they WANT. Madison Ave. has been convincing them for 25 years that doing switchbacks in the Alps is what they WANT.

Those on C&G who cry doom and gloom every time RWD is cancelled or V-8s are threatened have to understand that the days of those beasts are numbered. This latest round of CAFE ratings, plus inevitable things like GPS systems that the police/insurance lobby will have real-time access to are going to kill any 'fun' in driving. Mark my words.

To most drivers out there, a car is nothing more than an appliance, which is why Consumers Reports has become their bible, and why Toyota has done so well. Frankly, seeing a soccer mom sitting in a Sequoia or Tahoe is just makes me smirk.

There has been nothing impressive about Toyota for years, but like VW, they've earned the respect of the 30-something wannabee Andretti-writers out there who are more impressed by the soft vinyl on a dash then the daily operating expense of a vehicle - because, after all, those writers haven't had to pay for mainenance in years.

People spending 30K on a new ride should have dash panels that line up, door gaps you can't stick your finger in and compartments that stay shut. These 3 Toyotas didn't do one of these things. Compareable Chrysler minivans and Impala's I've rented were put together better. Toyota's reputation is partially supported by the media these days.

Speaking of minivans, a couple years ago a friend bought a new Sienna---$44k!! That's a lot for a minivan, albeit a loaded one. People I know that have Odesseys love them.

Edited March 19, 200916 yr by moltar

So let me get this straight... this TRD has gone from a floater to a sinker? Ohhhhh, OK.