where would that leave Saturn in the compact sedan arena? without a compact for four years, since the Ion will go out of production next year? I still hope GM can figure out how to build the Astra cheaply somewhere they have extra capacity and just send it over as is. It's beautiful. And we could really use a hot hatch over here, for ONE of the brands at least.

Well, they could make the ION through 2006, which would mean there should be a supply through 1Q 2007. If they could get the new Astra done by 1Q 2009 as a 2010 MY, then they'd only be without a small car for 2 years. That could give buyers time to forget the awful ION and the other vehicles time to improve Saturn's image.

I would like to see the planned '08 ION that C&G previewed to be released, but if we only have to wait 2 years for a better one then I'd wait. IMO, the only thing that's really groundbreaking about the '08 ION pics is the exterior. The interior looks like an improved HHR interior, and IMO is no better than the current Astra. In two years that interior will be nothing special and look dated.

I would be okay with waiting for two years, but the lost volume would cancel some of the gain from Outlook and Aura. If Astra were to come over it could hold the tent for five or six years even. The current Astra is very competitive, even against the new Euro Focus. I agree that the best thing about the Ion replacement is the exterior. The interior is very nice, but your HHR point is right on.

I would be okay with waiting for two years, but the lost volume would  cancel some of the gain from Outlook and Aura. If Astra were to come over it could hold the tent for five or six years even. The current Astra is very competitive, even against the new Euro Focus. I agree that the best thing about the Ion replacement is the exterior. The interior is very nice, but your HHR point is right on.

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I think that's what they'll do. Import a position filler. I just hope its not the GMDAT. I don't think the Nubira/Lacetti's horrendous reliability rep(per Suzuki)will be solved till its on an up to date gm platform.

Thats why I posted the potential Import options.

If it were'nt for the cost, I think the swb Vectra would be just the Ticket. Call it ummm Aeon :)

How could a SWB Aura not be a good thing. Especially in both 4 and 5 door configurations.

except for it being too expensive and based on Epsilon, which is a more expensive platform to produce than Astra's, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

except for it being too expensive and based on Epsilon, which is a more expensive platform to produce than Astra's, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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I think it will come down to which import one can pass U.S. standards with least investment.

Ya I don't know, but I think both would need reinforcements in the bumpers that might kill the design a little. I truly hope this is the route GM takes, all the Euro cars are very sweet.

Aura is Epsilon I and it's on the extended wheelbase used by the Pontiac G6 and the Malibu Maxx.  The 2nd generation Aura will be Epsilon II.

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Aura is on "a long wheelbase …", but no-one said it is on the long wheelbase.

Aura is on "a long wheelbase …", but no-one said it is on the long wheelbase.

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The insinuation of another longer wb EPII is unconfirmed and I believe speculation.

Yeah how flexible is Epsilon II anyway? Because I remember Epsilon was supposed to be flexible, yet it only has two wheelbases (106.3 and 112.3") and is narrow at 69-70". Its just not 1985 anymore-those widths need to go up to 72" or so, and the wheelbase I think should be at least at 109". I see Evoke being Delta-based and that underpinning the next Astra's-GM Europe will have to suck it up and deal with it, and GM will have to do a better job with it-no more 180-185" overall length for a modern compact car-that's just obscenely too long, and it could use an inch or two on the wheelbase, and class-leading passenger and cargo room should be a top priority. GM really needs to eliminate overlap and fast. While those Evoke pictures look nice (more from the pleasently bland school of design, even if Insignia concept and Mazda 3 influenced), Saturn S-Series and ION have always seemed to compete...well....with the Chevy Cavalier and Cobalt. Personally I don't know how Saturn is supposed to stand out-and I really really don't see a mainstream entry brand like Saturn going to compete with VW overnight-its just not going to happen. And Mazda should be Pontiac territory, but Pontiac lacks a compact, and at this point, direction as well. I'd like to see Buick compete with the VW Jetta, Volvo S40/V50 and Acura TSX, but they don't have the ambition to do so, but its at their own expense that they don't.

There is also a 105.30 wheelbase version used in the 9-3. If I'm not mistaken Epsilon was designed with Europe in mind hence the narrowness that is particularly akward looking in the long-wheel based models. This is the same mistake GM made with the U-vans from day one which are too narrow for the States and too wide for Europe. At once time the Grand Prix and Regal/Lacrosse/Allure were supposed to have been replaced by an "Epsilon-wide" architecture that would have been (obviously) wider than the existing models. I don't know if a longer wheelbase was planned for those models as well or why that plan was eliminated in favor of reengineering the cars the same W/midlux platform.

Epsilon comes in 2675 mm, 2700 mm, 2830 mm and 2852 mm wheelbases (at present). Width isn't a European issue, the Vectra is actually wider than the Malibu.

The insinuation of another longer wb EPII is unconfirmed and I believe speculation.

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In the Course of my parade through the Autonews Free Bee.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...=73231560340257

This Quote from Hans Demant.

Demant also said GM has increased the range of dimensions on Epsilon 2. The front overhang has increased by 3 or 4 inches and so has the width and road height of the vehicle.

sniff... sniff... :AH-HA_wink:

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Does that mean the '08 ION that you saw is scrapped and your sad because it looked so nice or something else?

sniff... sniff... :AH-HA_wink:

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So I hear.

So I hear.

Could someone let the rest of us in on the secret?

The current news is that the ION replacement will come in the 2009 MY and will be based on the Opel Astra not Chevy Cobalt but will the exterior and interior continue to resemble the spy pictures and will it still be called Evoke?