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Less than a week after the New General Motors emerged from the scrapyard of Chapter 11, Section 363 Bankruptcy, three

programs among the Cadillac and Buick divisions are back on the road.

First and foremost, the program to converge the DTS and STS into a new, rear-drive flagship Cadillac sedan is back on track after a one-year hold. The program has been renamed, however (we don't have the new name, yet), and the DT7 program designation has been shelved. That suggests Cadillac also has shelved plans to build the converged DTS/STS off Australian Brand Holden's Zeta RWD platform (Commodore/Statesman, Pontiac G8 and Chinese Buick Park Avenue). Cadillac will likely use its own Sigma (CTS) platform instead, which can be stretched long enough for a large, Mercedes S-Class competitor...

Meanwhile, Buick is enjoying some attention thanks to its all-new 2010 LaCrosse. Two new models will be added in the next two years. First, GM has approved for production the smaller midsize Epsilon II-platform sedan, based on the new-for-2009 Opel Insignia. Since the Insignia was to serve as the basis for the 2012 Saturn Aura, GM already has completed all the necessary engineering work on the Opel to make it meet U.S. standards and be assembled in a North American factory...

The second new model approved for the Buick lineup is the Delta-platform Chevrolet Cruze/Opel Astra-based car, another model initially intended for Saturn. Word is that the Buick version, appearing in time for the 2012 model year, will share the Cruze's sheetmetal but with unique front and rear clips and with an upgraded interior. Presumably, Buick's attention to ambient lighting, as in the new LaCrosse, will carry forward.

I don't understand why GMI members are having such a hard time with understanding how this could work. The SLS in China is 201 inches long.. or rather 2 inches longer than the 750i and 4 inches shorter than the S550. Width wise the STS is "skinnier" by about 1 inch less than the Sclass. I could easily see the new Cadillac being stretched an extra 1 wide and 4 inches long. AND WITH the things Cadillac has shown it is capable of just in it's 3 newest models the Escalade, CTS, and SRX... I'd easily say that the FLAGSHIP should absolutely be an AK-47 at a "rock fight."

I seriously still LOVE the STS... the SLS was superior to it at least in looks and interior. That was 4 years ago... To me.. it still looks better than the new 7series, A8, and new Jag XJ.. equal to the S-Class

I don't understand why GMI members are having such a hard time with understanding how this could work. The SLS in China is 201 inches long.. or rather 2 inches longer than the 750i and 4 inches shorter than the S550. Width wise the STS is "skinnier" by about 1 inch less than the Sclass. I could easily see the new Cadillac being stretched an extra 1 wide and 4 inches long. AND WITH the things Cadillac has shown it is capable of just in it's 3 newest models the Escalade, CTS, and SRX... I'd easily say that the FLAGSHIP should absolutely be an AK-47 at a "rock fight."

I seriously still LOVE the STS... the SLS was superior to it at least in looks and interior. That was 4 years ago... To me.. it still looks better than the new 7series, A8, and new Jag XJ.. equal to the S-Class

Wait! The above pictured Caddy exists AND is RWD? WHY THE HELL WAS THIS NEVER SOLD HERE? THAT CAR IS STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cadillac will likely use its own Sigma (CTS) platform instead, which can be stretched long enough for a large, Mercedes S-Class competitor...

Well look at that, someone at GM found a brain and decided to do what many of us have been saying for them to do for a long time...use Sigma.

This is good news.

I think the problem with the SLS is that it won't pass US side impact testing. Do a quick search on Youtube and you'll find that crashworthiness is not yet a priority in China. Still this news is more promising than the XTS "flagship" built off of Epsilon II. It's from MT, though, so I don't know if I want to put any stock in it yet.

Also, I'm with you in the STS fan club. It was priced too high for what it was, but it's still a great looking car. Gently used ones are going for a steal.

The second new model approved for the Buick lineup is the Delta-platform Chevrolet Cruze/Opel Astra-based car, another model initially intended for Saturn. Word is that the Buick version, appearing in time for the 2012 model year, will share the Astra's sheetmetal but with unique front and rear clips and with an upgraded interior. Presumably, Buick's attention to ambient lighting, as in the new LaCrosse, will carry forward.

Fixed!

That is how it should be and should include 3/5 Hatches too. Differentiate it totally from Cruze.

I think the problem with the SLS is that it won't pass US side impact testing. Do a quick search on Youtube and you'll find that crashworthiness is not yet a priority in China. Still this news is more promising than the XTS "flagship" built off of Epsilon II. It's from MT, though, so I don't know if I want to put any stock in it yet.

Also, I'm with you in the STS fan club. It was priced too high for what it was, but it's still a great looking car. Gently used ones are going for a steal.

I traded a 2005 STS 4.6L in on my CTS-V. I went to the dealer with my STS for an appraisal... OK.. let me say this once and for all... LUXURY CARS should not ever be considered an investment because their value drops like a grown up baby's ballz when it comes time to trade...

I wasn't optimistic when I pulled her up... My boy hit some hard times recently and sold his 2006 750i to Carmax with only 23K on the ODO... and they gave him $33K... He PAID $78K for it 2 years ago...

NOW ME... figuring that since I had under 25K on the ODO.. I would get at least $24K for it as a trade... NOPE!!! They came back at first with $18K... I got up and got in the car and started pulling outta the lot... The Sales guy runs over to my car and says ... " I got U $20K..." I said "Make it $21K, and drop the V from $64K to $61K and we gotta deal...

The V is LOVELY... and I named her PEARL. :smilies-38096:

And it's not just American and German luxos.when my lilo Brother got rid of his LS430 to get his Escalade... he thought he was gonna be able to pull it off like an EVEN TRADE... He was wrong as a mofo... as they gave him $20K for a car with 45K on the ODO... BRAND NEW his would have costs $60K... now look at the math here.. and I'm mindful that I had 20K less on my STS's ODO... but his car new costs $6K more than mine yet he got $1K less at trade.. and it was an ALMIGHTY Lexus LS430... an S-Class Competitor, while I was driving a LOWLY STS.. a 5series competitor.

I Loved her SOOOOO MUCH

Edited July 20, 200915 yr by Cmicasa the Great

Wait! The above pictured Caddy exists AND is RWD? WHY THE HELL WAS THIS NEVER SOLD HERE? THAT CAR IS STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah it is.. but I actually like our STS's new look better. It's more stylish. I do wish they had of taken the 2008 MCE to lengthen it and improve the interior to these specs of the SLS. Bottom line is that even if Cadillac were to simply make the CTS longer and give it the Escalade Platinum's materials and attention to detail... U would have an S-Class competitor that would be worthy of the name.

For engines.... Direct-Injecting the Northstar... or even better... using the 4.4L S/C from the Vseries detuned from 443HP to 385-395HP for the CTS, STS, and XLR... then giving the same engine better breathing elements and a slightly more aggressive exhaust and ECM tune taking the 469HP (STS-V) to at least 510HP for the Vseries program.. this for the time being would give it a class leading engine (ok ok... with exception to the AMG V12 in the SL65) this considering that in the XLR-V the 443HP engine allows it to actually STILL keep up with the SL65 despite it's 160HP advantage... Such is the engineering greatness of GM..

The main thing is that U have to realize that V8 engines.. at this time account for a small percentage of Cadillac STS sales. The DTS, ironically being FWD, has V8 sales by default... but it's really not even supposed to be in the line-up anymore.. it's counter-culture to the whole NEW philosophy.

Now.. with an "SLS" as the Flagship.. that default V8 position would fall on that car's sales in it's entirety.. but still.. in the U.S. U would still only see about 20K sales of that car.. (based on S-Class and LS numbers) Key to gaining those sales would be a diversified SLS line... with an entry level car starting at the $65K mark ending at $150K (DI 4.4L S/C 600hp Super V with 2-Mode tech )... with a POWERFUL engine for bragging rights (as that is what this segment is ALL about), a class-leading interior (which at this point is completely doable looking at the lower level CTS, Lacrosse, and even Malibu styling) but with highest grade materials and well integrated tech (as confusing to the consumer as possible as this seems to be well received), and EYE-POPPING exterior styling.. possibly a revised SIXTEEN.

This car would have NOTHING to do with Cadillac's giving a damn about CAFE... It would essentially be a 2010-style "Car Escalade".. without the negative SUV stigma. A Dual Mode version would of course be available... and would surely get better fuel economy to tout that the LS600hL... which gets the SAME fuel economy as the Hybrid Escalade...

critical! is the buick compact a rebadged cruze, or is it the astra?

Well look at that, someone at GM found a brain and decided to do what many of us have been saying for them to do for a long time...use Sigma.

This is good news.

All I have to say is remember what Fritz said "He works for me"

I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

This is true.

SMK just had an aneurysm.

I bet its off again next week.

SMK just had an aneurysm.

Don't toy with my emotions.

I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

Sorry... but I can't subscribe to that way of thinking. TRUTH IS.. we are a privileged few here on these "Enthusiast" website. Teh general public.. about 98% of the other car buyers, don't kno ONE THING about the "XLS, DT7, WhatevertheEFF."Hell with as much press as WE HAVE SEEN over the last 3 years on the Camaro and Volt.. I kno real people who had never even seen the Camaro until they saw one on the streets.. even with teh Transformer's movie. The Volt is still an unknown to the general public.

Granted as posted already that this is on/off guess work. I just wasn't getting the thought process in Sigma being a better chassis but they wouldn't use Zeta instead thinking to use Epsilon II? If they can't make Zeta work then this is the best choice for Cadillac if not for GM. After all Sigma was designed for exclusive use by Cadillac.

Lets hope Obama / Henderson / Bean Counters don't gum up the works.

Sorry... but I can't subscribe to that way of thinking. TRUTH IS.. we are a privileged few here on these "Enthusiast" website. Teh general public.. about 98% of the other car buyers, don't kno ONE THING about the "XLS, DT7, WhatevertheEFF."Hell with as much press as WE HAVE SEEN over the last 3 years on the Camaro and Volt.. I kno real people who had never even seen the Camaro until they saw one on the streets.. even with teh Transformer's movie. The Volt is still an unknown to the general public.

How can you not think like that? The company flip-flops so much?! I don't care what the general public knows or doesn't know right now. I'm talking about how I feel--and GM has been back and forth for years. I'm tired of it. I am at the point where I rather stay a bit in the dark like the majority of people and see what ACTUALLY comes out. Not what could be, then won't be, then will be again, then won't be again, then oh wait, yeah, it's on yet again. Nope. Off again.

On again.

Off.

Wait... on.

I'm at the point where I can't even tell what GM is doing being one of the "privileged" who is on the "enthusiast website". GM goes back and forth so much, I forget what's on this week, what's off this week.

Given GM's recent history of saying one thing, then doing another the day afterwards, I won't believe this until it rolls off the assembly line.

Still, it's good news nonetheless.

Granted as posted already that this is on/off guess work. I just wasn't getting the thought process in Sigma being a better chassis but they wouldn't use Zeta instead thinking to use Epsilon II? If they can't make Zeta work then this is the best choice for Cadillac if not for GM. After all Sigma was designed for exclusive use by Cadillac.

Lets hope Obama / Henderson / Bean Counters don't gum up the works.

There is no production line in N.A. that produces the Holden version of Zeta. Apparently, the Camaro was so heavily modified that it can't run down the same line as the G8 (don't know why).

There is a production line in N.A. that produces Sigma and it's going to have a good bit of capacity freed up by the SRX moving to a new platform/line. LGR was putting out between 22k and 30k SRXes a year.

There is nothing wrong with Sigma and I don't understand this talk that it's aged. It can still out handle and out run an M5 and it took a $110k Porsche to steal the Nurburgring crown the $60k CTS-V held for a year..... something that could be remedied with a $200 supercharger pulley.

The Chinese SLS may not pass side impact protections as is... but that doesn't mean that it never can.

Granted as posted already that this is on/off guess work. I just wasn't getting the thought process in Sigma being a better chassis but they wouldn't use Zeta instead thinking to use Epsilon II? If they can't make Zeta work then this is the best choice for Cadillac if not for GM. After all Sigma was designed for exclusive use by Cadillac.

Lets hope Obama / Henderson / Bean Counters don't gum up the works.

How does the President come into this? He has nothing to do with GM's line-up.

Sigma should have always been the provider for the underlay of the Cadillac Flagship. But lets not forget that Zeta is essentially a derivative and heavier version of the Sigma platform.. .which was originally under development by Holden but snatched by Cadillac back in the early part of the millennium.

My hope is that in widening and lengthening the Sigma platform GM adds more Aluminum bits to it to drop the weight down... especially with AWD being apart of the probably program. I would love to see a 70% Aluminum/30% Steel Platform for Cadillac exclusively, as the expensive would dictate that they be the first to depreciate the development costs.

Edited July 20, 200915 yr by Cmicasa the Great

How can you not think like that? The company flip-flops so much?! I don't care what the general public knows or doesn't know right now. I'm talking about how I feel--and GM has been back and forth for years. I'm tired of it. I am at the point where I rather stay a bit in the dark like the majority of people and see what ACTUALLY comes out. Not what could be, then won't be, then will be again, then won't be again, then oh wait, yeah, it's on yet again. Nope. Off again.

On again.

Off.

Wait... on.

I'm at the point where I can't even tell what GM is doing being one of the "privileged" who is on the "enthusiast website". GM goes back and forth so much, I forget what's on this week, what's off this week.

Problem is that in all my year sin Corporate America... every company I worked for "FLIP-FLOPPED" like that with a product here, a product there... a new finance program here or a new Finance program there. the PUBLIC DIDN'T KNO ABOUT IT UNTIL THE FINISHED PRODUCT/IDEA hit the shelves/market.

That is not possible these days.. at least amongst us "Enthusiasts." We kno about products that the gen public won't kno about for 3 years. When the companies change their minds of augment it... we are let down.. because we are disappointed over what we thought was gonna happen and didn't.

Its sorta like seeing on C&D's Website.. "The Chevy Corvette to get the Gen V Direct-Injected Engine kicking out 550 Base HP for 2011"

Then a month later we read that the HP is only gonna be 500HP and AWD as an option... and we are then disappointed.. BECAUSE and UNKNOWN SOURCE at GM said "this..." and then the OFFICIAL Release said "that."

There is no production line in N.A. that produces the Holden version of Zeta. Apparently, the Camaro was so heavily modified that it can't run down the same line as the G8 (don't know why).

There is a production line in N.A. that produces Sigma and it's going to have a good bit of capacity freed up by the SRX moving to a new platform/line. LGR was putting out between 22k and 30k SRXes a year.

There is nothing wrong with Sigma and I don't understand this talk that it's aged. It can still out handle and out run an M5 and it took a $110k Porsche to steal the Nurburgring crown the $60k CTS-V held for a year..... something that could be remedied with a $200 supercharger pulley.

The Chinese SLS may not pass side impact protections as is... but that doesn't mean that it never can.

Lovely post... and truth is that the only reason why, what I've come to kno as the "UGLY Porsche that should have been Aborted," beats the CTS-V is because it has AWD.. which helps tremendously in the cornering of the CORNER HEAVY "Ring."

Edited July 20, 200915 yr by Cmicasa the Great

There is no production line in N.A. that produces the Holden version of Zeta. Apparently, the Camaro was so heavily modified that it can't run down the same line as the G8 (don't know why).

There is a production line in N.A. that produces Sigma and it's going to have a good bit of capacity freed up by the SRX moving to a new platform/line. LGR was putting out between 22k and 30k SRXes a year.

There is nothing wrong with Sigma and I don't understand this talk that it's aged. It can still out handle and out run an M5 and it took a $110k Porsche to steal the Nurburgring crown the $60k CTS-V held for a year..... something that could be remedied with a $200 supercharger pulley.

The Chinese SLS may not pass side impact protections as is... but that doesn't mean that it never can.

So the SLS is Sigma? If so GREAT fix the crash ratings and build it.

I figure that CTS V has a lot more life in it maybe that pulley and some tuning will give Porsche something to really work at.

This Platform thing is very worrisome GME designs a platform & GMNA uses it but GME Opels cant be built at American assembly plants. GMNA then fixes that problem (last I read) then the Same thing happens with Zeta? Granted that Zeta is flexible, it was designed to be, but its like they planned that it wouldn't be sold or built here.

I know that single males have disposable income but a low cost sedan would sure fit Chevy's mission of value. Family's have tight budgets and need room above a Cruze

Lovely post... and truth is that the only reason why, what I've come to kno as the "UGLY Porsche that should have been Aborted," beats the CTS-V is because it has AWD.. which helps tremendously in the cornering of the CORNER HEAVY "Ring."

AWD doesn't help cornering, it adds weight, which hurts cornering.

How does the President come into this? He has nothing to do with GM's line-up.

Sigma should have always been the provider for the underlay of the Cadillac Flagship. But lets not forget that Zeta is essentially a derivative and heavier version of the Sigma platform.. .which was originally under development by Holden but snatched by Cadillac back in the early part of the millennium.

My hope is that in widening and lengthening the Sigma platform GM adds more Aluminum bits to it to drop the weight down... especially with AWD being apart of the probably program. I would love to see a 70% Aluminum/30% Steel Platform for Cadillac exclusively, as the expensive would dictate that they be the first to depreciate the development costs.

Sorry but he is the Commander in Chief of this Nation and has taken the lead of GM with this bankruptcy adding hand picked board members and appointing Car Czars Firing the CEO...

Now Congress is investigating the dealer shutdowns as far as the Gov.'s involvement.

As fast as the bankruptcy went it will open many peoples eyes as to the misdeeds of our Government.

AWD doesn't help cornering, it adds weight, which hurts cornering.

Seriously? You want to stick with that?

Also the CTSv was an auto transmission at the ring and it was a one-off drive attempt by a professional driver at the end of a session I believe.

Now Congress is investigating the dealer shutdowns as far as the Gov.'s involvement.

There is a dealer in my area making a huge stink about being shut down by Chrysler.. posting billboards and signs all over the place. You'd think they were some top tier dealer pushing out huge volume......

Nope. They are smaller than most new gas stations and they never bothered to take down the Eagle and Plymouth signs. There is still a "Summit Talon Vision" banner right above the "Stop Chrysler from Closing US!!!!" banner. If you go around the side of the building, the AMC logo is still visible.

Gee, I wonder why you got closed. I'm gonna get right on that letter to Sen. Spector to launch an investigation.

Seriously? You want to stick with that?

Yes I do. AWD adds weight, and can also make a car understeer, AND oversteer. Hasn't it been stated here before that the RWD Cayman outhandles the 911, but doesn't out perform it because there isn't a turbo version? F1 cars are RWD, not AWD. Doesn't GM's own, the Corvette, outhandle many AWD cars also? Ferrari outhandles Lamborghini. Shall I go on?

AWD doesn't help cornering, it adds weight, which hurts cornering.

Are U even serious? I gotta 4200lb CTS-V and a Corvette Z51 weighing 1000lbs less, in my garage, that would beg to differ... as the Corvette only beats the Cadillac in lateral gs by a point.

Are U even serious? I gotta 4200lb CTS-V and a Corvette Z51 weighing 1000lbs less, in my garage, that would beg to differ... as the Corvette only beats the Cadillac in lateral gs by a point.

The ZR1 does 1.1G. I doubt the CTS-V is anywhere near that.

There is a dealer in my area making a huge stink about being shut down by Chrysler.. posting billboards and signs all over the place. You'd think they were some top tier dealer pushing out huge volume......

Nope. They are smaller than most new gas stations and they never bothered to take down the Eagle and Plymouth signs. There is still a "Summit Talon Vision" banner right above the "Stop Chrysler from Closing US!!!!" banner. If you go around the side of the building, the AMC logo is still visible.

Gee, I wonder why you got closed. I'm gonna get right on that letter to Sen. Spector to launch an investigation.

Similarly GM Truck & Bus Moraine OH(closed this year) still had the Olds logo on the walk bridge on OH Rt. 741.They'd stopped making Bravad's & Reinere(sp) and added Saab before closing never adding Buick or Saab logos.

Wet sump simplicity — While the CTS-V's engine is similar to the new Corvette ZR-1's in that it's a supercharged 6.2-liter V8, it's not the exact same engine. One of the big differences is that the ZR-1 runs a dry-sump oiling system, while the Cadillac uses a conventional wet-sump oiling system. "The CTS-V simply isn't capable of the lateral loads the Corvette can generate," the source explained. "It's heavier and has smaller tires."

The manual isn't as fast — "The reason you see John wave at the beginning of the video," another anonymous source told us, "is because (ride and drive engineer) Aaron Link is right behind him in a manual-transmission CTS-V." Link, an excellent driver in his own right, simply couldn't keep up with Heinricy and throughout testing, the automatic has proven to be the hot setup for this car. "There's video of Aaron's run, and he's incredibly busy" an insider told us. "Meanwhile, John barely moves."

The ZR1 does 1.1G. I doubt the CTS-V is anywhere near that.

In essence I shouldn't have compared the two... mostly because the Corvette by nature is a lower center of gravity car that ranges from .96g (Z51), .98g (Z06), and 1.14g (ZR1). Some of that difference between the ZR1 and Z51 can actually be explained by the tires. The CTS-V weighing in at 1000lbs more than the lower-center-of -gravity Vettes pulls off a lateral g of .94

In essence I shouldn't have compared the two... mostly because the Corvette by nature is a lower center of gravity car that ranges from .96g (Z51), .98g (Z06), and 1.14g (ZR1). Some of that difference between the ZR1 and Z51 can actually be explained by the tires. The CTS-V weighing in at 1000lbs more than the lower-center-of -gravity Vettes pulls off a lateral g of .94

Road and Track got .87 for the CTS-V and 1.1 for the Corvette. The only car they beat the Corvette with, was another RWD car, the ACR Viper.

Wet sump simplicity — While the CTS-V's engine is similar to the new Corvette ZR-1's in that it's a supercharged 6.2-liter V8, it's not the exact same engine. One of the big differences is that the ZR-1 runs a dry-sump oiling system, while the Cadillac uses a conventional wet-sump oiling system. "The CTS-V simply isn't capable of the lateral loads the Corvette can generate," the source explained. "It's heavier and has smaller tires."

Precisely... The the reason for the CTS-V's handling being inferior to the ZR1 is due more to WEIGHT and tires. This is actually a good thing... as a better performance in that area could lead to the Engine starving for lubrication due to the WET-SUMP vs the ZR1's DRY-SUMP.

This still doesn't explain why the Porsche "Ugly-mobile" wouldn't be a better handler due to it having AWD. This is actually similar in fact to the old Z06 vs GT-R discussions I used to get into at MT Forum

Road and Track got .87 for the CTS-V and 1.1 for the Corvette. The only car they beat the Corvette with, was another RWD car, the ACR Viper.

and Motor Trend (CTS-V vs XF-R) just did it in .94.

Precisely... The the reason for the CTS-V's handling being inferior to the ZR1 is due more to WEIGHT and tires. This is actually a good thing... as a better performance in that area could lead to the Engine starving for lubrication due to the WET-SUMP vs the ZR1's DRY-SUMP.

This still doesn't explain why the Porsche "Ugly-mobile" wouldn't be a better handler due to it having AWD. This is actually similar in fact to the old Z06 vs GT-R discussions I used to get into at MT Forum

The Ring is geared for being a track that is more friendly for AWD and FWD biased cars. The way the corners are set, with same power to weight ratio, an understeering car will do better than oversteering car on that circuit.

As for the grip of the Corvette Z51, and Z06 the reason they have low grip is that they have firmer tires. Caddy CTS-V with summer compound tires will certainly catch those despite of the weight. If Z51 and Z06 are given the softer compounds be sure for the grip to jump up.

The Ring is geared for being a track that is more friendly for AWD and FWD biased cars. The way the corners are set, with same power to weight ratio, an understeering car will do better than oversteering car on that circuit.

As for the grip of the Corvette Z51, and Z06 the reason they have low grip is that they have firmer tires. Caddy CTS-V with summer compound tires will certainly catch those despite of the weight. If Z51 and Z06 are given the softer compounds be sure for the grip to jump up.

So you deny weight has a big effect on handling? Also, RWD oversteers, FWD understeers, AWD possibly does both.

AWD helps in acceleration, which could be a reason why the Porsche won at the ring. If you said that, it may be accurate. It may be able to accelerate out of turns better, but that doesn't mean it handles better. Let me be clear. I'm not disputing that the Porsche won because it's AWD. I'm disputing that AWD makes a car corner better, which it does not.

Similarly GM Truck & Bus Moraine OH(closed this year) still had the Olds logo on the walk bridge on OH Rt. 741.They'd stopped making Bravad's & Reinere(sp) and added Saab before closing never adding Buick or Saab logos.

When was the last time they made a Bus there too? 1986?

When was the last time they made a Bus there too? 1986?

Never it was truck & bus till they sold the bus business off but never built buses in Moraine only S10's / Trailblazers...

But was always called Truck & Bus in the plant

A RWD/AWD flagship car for Cadillac would be the best case scenario. I hope it materializes instead of (despite of?...) the Epsilon 2 XTS.

So you deny weight has a big effect on handling? Also, RWD oversteers, FWD understeers, AWD possibly does both.

That was a typo. I corrected it.

Look at my statement, I said given weight equivalence FWD biased or AWD cars are better off on the Ring than the RWD cars.

Weight surely plays factor, but there is lot more going on. It is how you tune the suspension, what tires you are riding on, that play significant part more than the weight. If your Corvette tires do not generate grip good luck trying to outdo a heavy Caddy riding on softer compounds.

So last week they were saying the Cadillac flagship was going to be on Epsilon II. Now RWD? I guess I won't believe it until a production version of something appears.

I think they should build both the XTS and the new SLS STS DTS whatever they want to call it. I think there is a market for both. I know people say the XTS is directly competetive with buick but back in the 90s Cadillac has an SLS and an STS with different options and touring suspension vs more traditional suspension.

Heck, even in 1985, we had a choice of standard or "touring suspension" or the Seville. Ours had a nice "touring suspension" badge on the trunk.

Don't forget, how sophisticated the AWD system plays a huge role in how well in works. And yes, the really good ones can no doubt out handle RWD.

Why don't they cut all the drama and extra work and just say, then, that they're gonna bring out a fully redesigned STS? That's essentially what it's gonna be... and essentially what it should be.

Next week, GM will be sourcing engines from Honda for the new FWD Cadillac flagship!