Just wondering what everyone else here thought regarding current Delta-based cars. The one I feel is the best is, of course, the one that isn't available here. I feel that the Opel Astra received all of the attention due to the demanding European market. Just take the first IONs for an example. It was panned by everyone. Car & Driver called it the "most disappointing all-new American car in over a decade" while they described the Cobalt compared to the ION as "from dead last to head of the class". It just doesn't seem right to me that we're forced to take Grade B or even C products compared to GM Europe's current Grade A products.

Chevrolet Cobalt

Chevrolet HHR

Opel Astra

Saturn ION

astra or cobalt

id say cobalt cuz i like coupes but that astra has nice styling

Astra 3-door... it's another car that I plan on importing to the US once I'm a rich bastard.

Such a beautiful vehicle...

Edited January 18, 200620 yr by blackviper8891

Astra 3-door... it's another car that I plan on importing to the US once I'm a rich bastard.

Dude, you totally read my mind on that one!

Astra. The others are no match if you compare like this.

BTW, I was told somewhere that the Astra is NOT Delta.

Yes, I voted for the ION. I don't care.

Astra is almost perfect except for the crappy center stack in all Euro cars.

Astra isn't on Delta. GM Europe simply used the old Astra platform with updated chassis and a slight increase in wheelbase previously engineered by GM do Brasil. The savings in development and tooling costs (along with skipping the original MCE) were put into bringing the new Astra forward and making it more competitive in other areas. This subsequently made it very easy for GM do Brasil to design the new Chevrolet Vectra based on the new Astra with the lwb version of the platform. With the US small car team now reporting to GM Europe's Global Compact Car program, Delta is apparently dead (hence no GMX 002 on Delta).

Can any of you guys guess how I voted?

Hint: look at my avatar. :AH-HA_wink:

Astro.

The SS SC is hot as hell and I'd love to have one.

The Redline is pretty sweet as well.

But the Astro pwnz all!

Vote for one of those while you still can!!

Astra isn't on Delta. GM Europe simply used the old Astra platform with updated chassis and a slight increase in wheelbase previously engineered by GM do Brasil. The savings in development and tooling costs (along with skipping the original MCE) were put into bringing the new Astra forward and making it more competitive in other areas. This subsequently made it very easy for GM do Brasil to design the new Chevrolet Vectra based on the new Astra with the lwb version of the platform. With the US small car team now reporting to GM Europe's Global Compact Car program, Delta is apparently dead (hence no GMX 002 on Delta).

I know this isn't really the place for it, but if you could answer then great. IF GMX002 is no longer on Delta, is it Astra based now? And is it on track for the same timeframe? Thanks.

sorry to take you guys off-topic.......apparently Chris agrees Delta's gone too...

1) Astra

2) HHR (exterior puts this over the Cobalt)

3) Cobalt

4) Ion

I know this isn't really the place for it, but if you could answer then great. IF GMX002 is no longer on Delta, is it Astra based now? And is it on track for the same timeframe? Thanks.

sorry to take you guys off-topic.......apparently Chris agrees Delta's gone too...

I know this isn't really the place for it, but if you could answer then great. IF GMX002 is no longer on Delta, is it Astra based now? And is it on track for the same timeframe? Thanks.

sorry to take you guys off-topic.......apparently Chris agrees Delta's gone too...

I'm guessing that GME got the lead for the next global small-car platform and the next Astra is on it, and the ION will be just a clone for the most part I'm guessing.

I don't think that GMX002 would still be on the same timeframe, as I think the next Astra is a 2010 model (or 2009?).

As for the poll: Astra, hands down. Of the American entries, probably HHR.

To clarify, GM Daewoo is doing Global Small Car (smaller than Astra), GM Europe is doing Global Compact Car (Astra, Zafira, Optra, etc) and Global Midsize (formerly Epsilon II). There seems to be some confusion since people think Ion and Cobalt=small car, when the Ion is larger then the Vectra in overall length, and the Astra sedan (Chevrolet Vectra), wagon and MPV have longer wheelbases than the Malibu.

The Delta-based GMX 002 is dead, instead the Ion will be replaced by another program led by GM Europe, with engineering done globally. Since the Saturn will be a sedan and the European models a hatch and wagon there is no reason why the Saturn could not come first. Dumping GMX 002 may even allow work on the Global Compact Car to be advanced, so there may be no delay.

If an Astra sedan is developed for another market such as South Africa or China, then there may no work on an identifiable Saturn program until NA homologation begins. Even work in the US would be on the "Opel", not a "Saturn".

Edited January 19, 200620 yr by thegriffon

So they aren't going to give us a hatch version of the next ION? I was hoping for a 3-door.

Thanks for the info, thegriffon, and I'm glad to here there may be no delay at all.

So they aren't going to give us a hatch version of the next ION? I was hoping for a 3-door.

Thanks for the info, thegriffon, and I'm glad to here there may be no delay at all.

I can't say they "aren't", but the sedan (probably still much like the sketch shown to analysts) is still the core model in the US. Other variants as offered in Europe (5-door, wagon, coupe-cabriolet, 3-door coupe etc.) would have to come much later if at all. They could even be imported.

Astra. The others are no match if you compare like this.

BTW, I was told somewhere that the Astra is NOT Delta.

You're right, I heard that somewhere too. Something like a collaboration with FIAT, right?

Astra isn't on Delta. GM Europe simply used the old Astra platform with updated chassis and a slight increase in wheelbase previously engineered by GM do Brasil. The savings in development and tooling costs (along with skipping the original MCE) were put into bringing the new Astra forward and making it more competitive in other areas. This subsequently made it very easy for GM do Brasil to design the new Chevrolet Vectra based on the new Astra with the lwb version of the platform. With the US small car team now reporting to GM Europe's Global Compact Car program, Delta is apparently dead (hence no GMX 002 on Delta).

Ahh, of course. Ok, I should have entitled this GM's best small car. My apologies.

I just tend to think of these cars as Delta due to their size (and original plans). I still love the Astra, though!

The next Corsa (a small compact hatch like the 207) is a collaboration with Fiat (what they are calling Common Systems and Components). Would make a nice Saturn small car, but unlikely.

Ever noticed that people can import dirty smog belchers that drink more fuel as long as the cars are around 25 years old, but we can't import a safe, modern, clean, fuel-sipping car because it supposedly isn't safe enough?

Please tell me just where there is justice in this. Goes to show that our nation really doesn't care about conservation.

Neither can be imported in volume without exemptions from the EPA and NHTSA. A private import of a single vehicle may simply require clearances from customs and an emissions test such as an older vehicle may require for re-registration. Some states may of course require higher standards than those required to meet even Euro4 emissions, and of course, the cost involved in importing a car from Europe privately may be excessive unless it's an expensive exotic, and you will have no manufacturer support.

Astro.

The SS SC is hot as hell and I'd love to have one.

The Redline is pretty sweet as well.

But the Astro pwnz all!

This is Delta? GM's platforms have become a lot more versatile than I thought.

At any rate, the Astra is, in my opinion, the best-looking hatchback ever made.

Neither can be imported in volume without exemptions from the EPA and NHTSA. A private import of a single vehicle may simply require clearances from customs and an emissions test such as an older vehicle may require for re-registration. Some states may of course require higher standards than those required to meet even Euro4 emissions, and of course, the cost involved in importing a car from Europe privately may be excessive unless it's an expensive exotic, and you will have no manufacturer support.

Oooh! I feel that Europe has some awesome cars, and the U.S. either doesn't get them, or they're watered down.

I love our Cobalt, but the Opel is SO much a better car. Especially since they have the great diesels and other high gas mileage engines.