the XTS will find a market as long as it manages to convince buyers of the value of its features, quality, and performance. some people will be turned off by the proportions at the front, but most will find a lot of appeal in an appealing design. this design is very good, but it has one major feature that mars its quality. i won't go over that once more. a lot of people won't have quite the experience with good design or good discernment [or are willing to overlook the one area of bad proportions thanks to other great and attractive features of the design] to notice a difference and will be won over by the XTS as long as the features/quality of this interior design manage to make it to production. if there is serious dumbing down of the production version, if the base wheel design is poor, if the interior is seriously sparse and doesn't stand on its own as a quality design, if the car itself doesn't offer the right package [no awd, no hybrid standard], the car's chances for success will be seriously hurt and buyers will continue to choose other mid-level luxury options.

one more thing. pricing has not been confirmed anywhere. i think they'd be smart to load up the interior quality, load up the expensive design features, make the hybrid standard, and start this around $50k. that would be pricing it out of many people's reach, and thereby limiting volume. the alternative is to have a lower priced less attractive and less monumental Cadillac that's only going to hurt their image going forward.

this car will ultimately be measured in the substance of what it offers, even if it manages to convince a lot less savvy consumers to purchase, and what it offers has to measure up in terms of powertrain instead of offering a real dynamic exciting package that generates a lot of buzz. though there are a lot of uninformed buyers out there still, everyday that passes is a new day that new users join in on the internet revolution and get informed! via edmunds, gmi, autoblog, and even here...

Edited January 20, 201016 yr by turbo200

Just remember my age old quote "GM could produce a fully working model of Christ himself and people would still complain about the water to wine function only dispensing Merlot"

Just look at the CTS-V. It smacks around the M5 in every measurable way. It took a 20 year old driving a manual M3 against a 78 year old in an automatic CTS-V to only lose by a very small margin, it has an interior that anyone could be proud of..... and yet we still have people whining about pushrods, rear sunshades and the lack of 103 way power seats and bringing up the Cimarron in the very first sentence of reviews.

When us "Cadillac Defenders" see people attacking what looks to be a very capable Cadillac for it's target audience, I hope you'll understand why we see the need to push back with... you know... facts and stuff. If this really were a warmed over G-body DTS refresh, and looked the part, I'd be releasing the dogs right there with you. But it's not....

You don't need to give me a mild version of the smk treatment here. I vocally support GM. I believe the vehicles I've purchased, although used, show that I do really like the company as well. I know what GM's capable of, past, present, future, and I feel like GM could have done much more with the XTS, but again, what does my opinion matter?

I have no problems with the XTS as is, but I'd love to see this just be a design study that ultimately ends up on Zeta so a whole bunch of you can drink a nice steaming cup of STFU and still not buy it.

I mean really, this much vitriol for a car that 99.9% of you couldn't afford new anyway.

I hope you don't find my criticisms of this car to be vitriolic (I certainly don't think they are).

I think the car is disappointing yes, but I don't think my points are without merit or hyper-critical.

For what it's worth, I expected the car to be FWD-based. I was prepared to accept that. However, I also expected a desgn home-run, and the XTS doesn't pass muster on that front. It didn't live up to the hype that preceded it.

I expected better, much better.

Who buy's LSes, S-classes, and 7-series again? Usually people over 65 and rap stars.

World leaders, dictators, CEOs, etc like the S-class. The S600 Guard is not only bullet proof and impervious to small explosions (grenades, land mines), but it also has it's own air supply and a fire extinguisher system to put out fires under/around the car. That just makes is very versatile for a wide range of clients.

The average age for a BMW buyer is 46, but for the 7-series it is low 50s. So that isn't that old for a car of that price. 7-series is probably close to the CTS and Enclave average buyer age, and obviously lower than the DTS, STS, Lucerne.

If the XTS was a car designed by Mercedes or BMW, all the GM fans here would rip it like crazy for being front drive, they'd claim Mercedes/BMW was selling out, or cheapening their brand, or that V6 only was weak for a big Mercedes. Or if Lexus was replacing the LS460 with the XTS, everyone would call it an Avalon in drag, or that Toyota is just making more hybrids that don't even give that much gain in fuel economy, or that it is another geezer-mobile Lexus. No one here would praise this car if it had an L or 3-point star on the front. If the car isn't worthy of wearing the 3-point star, it shouldn't wear the wreath and crest either.

The Wreath and Crest used to mean something, it doesn't anymore, that is what is most disappointing to me.

Edited January 21, 201016 yr by smk4565

SMK - 1st where do you get your numbers from? 2nd, I think the only reason why one of the manufactures you named would get blasted for FWD product is because there is this rabid group of FWD haters here. If MB or BMW came out with a nice car that was FWD I would not automatically bash it and I know some other people on here would not bash it either. There is not a 100% correlation between hating FWD and being a fan of GM because if that was the case then GM would have no fans.

If the XTS was a car designed by Mercedes or BMW, all the GM fans here would rip it like crazy for being front drive, they'd claim Mercedes/BMW was selling out, or cheapening their brand, or that V6 only was weak for a big Mercedes. Or if Lexus was replacing the LS460 with the XTS, everyone would call it an Avalon in drag, or that Toyota is just making more hybrids that don't even give that much gain in fuel economy, or that it is another geezer-mobile Lexus. No one here would praise this car if it had an L or 3-point star on the front. If the car isn't worthy of wearing the 3-point star, it shouldn't wear the wreath and crest either.

The Wreath and Crest used to mean something, it doesn't anymore, that is what is most disappointing to me.

Apples and oranges.

I may not like the execution of the XTS, but a FWD-based Caddy is a far more legitimate entry in the market than one from MB or BMW would be. Those two have zero history building FWD luxury cars - but Cadillac does.

The wreath and crest still has meaning, in fact it has a reputation on the upswing. My opinion is that the XTS doesn't move it forward very much, but as a brand, Cadillac's identity is solidifying generally.

Far be it from me to endorse the XTS, but it isn't the embarassment you seem to think it is.

Apples and oranges.

I may not like the execution of the XTS, but a FWD-based Caddy is a far more legitimate entry in the market than one from MB or BMW would be. Those two have zero history building FWD luxury cars - but Cadillac does.

The wreath and crest still has meaning, in fact it has a reputation on the upswing. My opinion is that the XTS doesn't move it forward very much, but as a brand, Cadillac's identity is solidifying generally.

Far be it from me to endorse the XTS, but it isn't the embarassment you seem to think it is.

I have reserved saying anything since Drew showed me the car on Sunday before NAIAS. I just wanted to sit on it.

I feel exactly how you feel. My main concern is given that GM already had resources to turn the other wheels, they did not use them. Given the constraints Welburn and team has done a fantastic job. And therein lies my problem. Why does Welburn have to compromise all the time? Let him have all hands on deck, no compromise design for once. We have more than a capable platform in Zeta, which is under utilized. GM has compromised on this car, and that is something at this point I do not agree with.

This car does not break any ground technologically. Everything has been picked from the bean-counters and made into one package, which to its credit is solid. Cadillac should not be that given it is aiming for a solid status. Given GM's engineering and technological capability they undersold this vehicle.

I have reserved saying anything since Drew showed me the car on Sunday before NAIAS. I just wanted to sit on it.

I feel exactly how you feel. My main concern is given that GM already had resources to turn the other wheels, they did not use them. Given the constraints Welburn and team has done a fantastic job. And therein lies my problem. Why does Welburn have to compromise all the time? Let him have all hands on deck, no compromise design for once. We have more than a capable platform in Zeta, which is under utilized. GM has compromised on this car, and that is something at this point I do not agree with.

This car does not break any ground technologically. Everything has been picked from the bean-counters and made into one package, which to its credit is solid. Cadillac should not be that given it is aiming for a solid status. Given GM's engineering and technological capability they undersold this vehicle.

This.

And a Cadillac shouldn't have compromises.

You know, what I think I was expecting from this car was a modern interpretation of an E-body. Something so obviously upscale and obviously Cadillac that I could respect it even if I didn't care for the design.

Well IMHO it's at least better than an E-body.

Well IMHO it's at least better than an E-body.

you watch your mouth!

80's cars were not my thing for the most part, what can I say.

E-Body came out in '66; maybe he was making a reference to a... '73 or thereabouts.

I don't like E-bodies either, but they had such brash presence and an in-your-face elegance much like the Sixteen.

That long nose makes it work.

I just don't see any of that in the XTS.

Like I said earlier, if the XTS was big, stately, utterly gorgeous, and beautifully polarizing like the 1967 Eldo, it would be more than acceptable, regardless of the drive wheels.

I was expecting a modern, 4-door version of this:

Instead I see a bloated, rehashed version of this:

Edited January 21, 201016 yr by whiteknight

Yes, long nose, strong lines...

'67-gen Eldorado is one of my top 5 auto designs of all time, bar nothing.

Back in the '80s there was tired soldier '68 in Balimer, and I would walk around it for 20 minutes at a clip.

Fast forward to last year here in Jersey, another '68 shows up at a gas station 2 miles from my house, and another 30 minutes of my life happily slips away.

I say 'top 5' yet there is no other car I've (yet) seen where I soak the design in so vigorously. F-ing amazing.

-- -- -- -- --

That said, if we are going to compare the XTS to what it COULD'VE been, I'd be having a completely different conversation from my POV.

would get blasted for FWD product is because there is this rabid group of FWD haters here.

The are no rabid RWD haters because the FWD people are getting what they want... cheap appliances.

FWD haters here wouldn't be so rabid, if there were a few decent, affordable RWD cars from GM.

does anyone else feel the lacrosse is too narrow [and tall] for its length? just a little....now i wonder if the xts will be the same width...and longer than lacrosse.

YES. The LaCrosse looks narrow and tall, with a high beltline. The "Cadillac" XTS appears to share those stylistic shortcomings. It looks like a katydid.

LaCrosse: to my eye, the beltline & overall height conspire to make it look narrow.

Then again, I'm more familiar with 79-81"-wide vehicles, so everything looks narrow to me.

XTS is almost 2" wider than the LaC IIRC; I don't see the same minor ungainliness there... but more width is always welcome IMO.

Apples and oranges.

I may not like the execution of the XTS, but a FWD-based Caddy is a far more legitimate entry in the market than one from MB or BMW would be. Those two have zero history building FWD luxury cars - but Cadillac does.

The wreath and crest still has meaning, in fact it has a reputation on the upswing. My opinion is that the XTS doesn't move it forward very much, but as a brand, Cadillac's identity is solidifying generally.

Far be it from me to endorse the XTS, but it isn't the embarassment you seem to think it is.

It's not apples and oranges. Substitute Mercedes and BMW, with Infiniti, and the reaction would be the same, yet Infiniti also has has made FWD cars in the past. But this isn't about the past, or history, it is about current trends. Infiniti stopped making FWD about the same time they started becoming relevent in the luxury market. Cadillac appeared to be on the same path, with the CTS, STS, SRX, and XLR, with only the outdated DTS left for FWD. Then they got scared when the STS didn't sell up to expectations, and instead of fixing the cars shortcomings, they did a 180, and are giving an XTS instead. Same for the SRX. If Infiniti made a new Q, but decided to put it on a FWD biased platform, is would be just as dumb a move as the XTS being put on the Epsilon 2 platform.

Just imagine if Toyota had corporate ADD like GM does. They would have released the T-100, it wouldn't have sold up to expectations, and they would have made a Ridgeline like truck instead. But they don't back down from the competetion. And when it comes time for the new Tundra, they still won't back down and concede the market to the American trucks. What Cadillac is doing, is conceding the market to BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes, and admitting they can't go head to head with them.

Edited January 22, 201016 yr by CaddyXLR-V

I have no problems with the XTS as is, but I'd love to see this just be a design study that ultimately ends up on Zeta so a whole bunch of you can drink a nice steaming cup of STFU and still not buy it.

I mean really, this much vitriol for a car that 99.9% of you couldn't afford new anyway.

Considering that many people on here are younger than 25 and still in school or college, it is to be expected many here can't afford it. But does that mean they shouldn't voice their opinions? Maybe you should limit the threads talking about cars over $40,000 to the .1% that can afford them.

Edited January 22, 201016 yr by CaddyXLR-V

Considering that many people on here are younger than 25 and still in school or college, it is to be expected many here can't afford it. But does that mean they shouldn't voice their opinions? Maybe you should limit the threads talking about cars over $40,000 to the .1% that can afford them.

Opinions are fine. There are opinions and there is bashing.

Not personally liking a car is one thing. Hoping for it's failure is another.