I would drive that 2011 GMC Savana 1500 passenger van in a heartbeat if the wife said we needed a van; the others posted here? Not so much!

A plumber, appliance repair man, and other small business aren't going to spend $800,000 dollars to rice out their van. What they care about is the most bang for their buck and which vans suits their needs best That may be an Express, a Transit, or a Sprinter. They're not looking at how many chicks they can pick up with it.

Three things.

1. Businesses are emotional about one thing: money. If these vans provide a good value, are reliable, and are fuel efficient. They'll sell.

2. You can't swing a dead cat in Europe without hitting a Ducato. They are the European version equivalent to the Econoline. They can do the work that most will ask of them.

3. Ram needs something to replace the Sprinter.... or are you suggesting they simply cede these markets to Ford?

So?

1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain.

2. Europe is no indicator for our market.

3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans.

You clearly have little insight into the experience of a small business owner. Does it fulfill my needs? How much does it cost to operate/maintain? How does it drive? Can I paint an effective advertisement for my business all over it? Can I service it conveniently? Is it reliable? Those are the questions asked by a business, NOT "Can I get it lower, longer and wider?"

You clearly know absolutely nothing about contractors - read Balthy's post for a quick primer.

Excuse me? As Balthy himself said, it is quite apparent these vans aren't intended for contractors. Or did you forget to read the "quick primer"? I'm actually quite familiar with contractors--I know a good number of them. More disturbing to me is your conflating of contractors with small bricks-and-mortar business owners, like florists, bakers, printers, caterers, etc.

Excuse me? As Balthy himself said, it is quite apparent these vans aren't intended for contractors. Or did you forget to read the "quick primer"? I'm actually quite familiar with contractors--I know a good number of them. More disturbing to me is your conflating of contractors with small bricks-and-mortar business owners, like florists, bakers, printers, caterers, etc.

Same difference, isn't it? Both groups are using vans or trucks for commercial purposes...

Three things.

1. Businesses are emotional about one thing: money. If these vans provide a good value, are reliable, and are fuel efficient. They'll sell.

2. You can't swing a dead cat in Europe without hitting a Ducato. They are the European version equivalent to the Econoline. They can do the work that most will ask of them.

3. Ram needs something to replace the Sprinter.... or are you suggesting they simply cede these markets to Ford?

So?

1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain.

2. Europe is no indicator for our market.

3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans.

You clearly have little insight into the experience of a small business owner. Does it fulfill my needs? How much does it cost to operate/maintain? How does it drive? Can I paint an effective advertisement for my business all over it? Can I service it conveniently? Is it reliable? Those are the questions asked by a business, NOT "Can I get it lower, longer and wider?"

You clearly know absolutely nothing about contractors - read Balthy's post for a quick primer.

Excuse me? As Balthy himself said, it is quite apparent these vans aren't intended for contractors. Or did you forget to read the "quick primer"? I'm actually quite familiar with contractors--I know a good number of them. More disturbing to me is your conflating of contractors with small bricks-and-mortar business owners, like florists, bakers, printers, caterers, etc.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

I've been a contractor since 1985, and worked for, around, and with contractors for even longer. The appearance of a work vehicle is an important aspect of living in that world. It is both a sales tool, and a source of pride. For a contractor, a good truck (van) is like a good tool - a bad one is almost worse than none at all.

Three things.

1. Businesses are emotional about one thing: money. If these vans provide a good value, are reliable, and are fuel efficient. They'll sell.

2. You can't swing a dead cat in Europe without hitting a Ducato. They are the European version equivalent to the Econoline. They can do the work that most will ask of them.

3. Ram needs something to replace the Sprinter.... or are you suggesting they simply cede these markets to Ford?

So?

1. Businesses are composed of humans. Humans are emotional (even if the emotional response is an unconcious one). Maybe these will sell, maybe they will not, but the emotional aspect will remain.

2. Europe is no indicator for our market.

3. Of course not, but I hope they reduce the ugly before they release these vans.

You clearly have little insight into the experience of a small business owner. Does it fulfill my needs? How much does it cost to operate/maintain? How does it drive? Can I paint an effective advertisement for my business all over it? Can I service it conveniently? Is it reliable? Those are the questions asked by a business, NOT "Can I get it lower, longer and wider?"

You clearly know absolutely nothing about contractors - read Balthy's post for a quick primer.

Excuse me? As Balthy himself said, it is quite apparent these vans aren't intended for contractors. Or did you forget to read the "quick primer"? I'm actually quite familiar with contractors--I know a good number of them. More disturbing to me is your conflating of contractors with small bricks-and-mortar business owners, like florists, bakers, printers, caterers, etc.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

I've been a contractor since 1985, and worked for, around, and with contractors for even longer. The appearance of a work vehicle is an important aspect of living in that world. It is both a sales tool, and a source of pride. For a contractor, a good truck (van) is like a good tool - a bad one is almost worse than none at all.

As usual, you cannot see beyond yourself. You're the only one trying to argue about contractors here--the rest of us are talking about the couriers/delivery businesses that these vehicles are clearly designed for. I don't think there's any disagreement here at all that these vans most likely will not sell heavily to contractors--because by just looking at them, that's not the primary intended market.

Whatever, Croc.

How about we wait till they actually go on market with pricing and options before deciding if they will sell.

Again, Dodge moved 12,000 $30,000+ Sprinters in 2008.... that isn't a high hurdle to cross if pricing is better on the Ducato (as I suspect it will be).

All Ram has to do is offer it as a diesel at the same base price as the gasoline Chevy and Ford, and it will have a compelling reason to exist in the market.

Price is going to be the prime factor- it's going to have to seriously undercut the competition for a fiat van to gain any traction in the market.

Price is going to be the prime factor- it's going to have to seriously undercut the competition for a fiat van to gain any traction in the market.

right... cause the $10k price premium to start really hurt the Sprinter.

Well, Sprinter gets the gloss of the Benz connection while the Fiat gets the curse of "Fix-It-Again-Tony".

Can they pull a Hyundai and price it low enough to make inroads?

I'd like to know how many people were even aware the Dodge Sprinter was a Mercedes product.

If it can haul as much or more stuff and use less fuel, it'll do fine.

Dodgefan ~ >>"I'd like to know how many people were even aware the Dodge Sprinter was a Mercedes product."<<

Gee, I wonder

Oldsmoboi ~ >>"right... cause the $10k price premium to start really hurt the Sprinter."<<

Absolutely- like most all mercedes; overpriced.

Average. Average person doesn't know where the dipsick on their car is or what it is.

Sure- the average car buyer is pretty clueless. But we've just spent 4 pages here arguing what a comparison shopper the savvy commercial buyer is.

And these things even had the same model name seems damned near impossible to miss, even for the clueless.

In looking at the specs, I see the doblo is a manual-only van. That's going to cut WAY into it's market potential here.

All those flower shop women are going to balk at that.

It also a lot smaller (55" load floor) inside than the just-announced Dodge C/V, with only a 3/36 warranty. Not good with known turbo problems.

If Dodge offers it's unlimited lifetime powertrain warranty on the C/V, it certainly seems the more compelling choice.

Actually, the Sprinter was marketed solely as a Freightliner in the US until 2003 when Dodge gained access to them as well. Mercedes badging didn't start until 2008 and even then only on the "limo" models. It wasn't until the Dodge version was canceled with the severing of the Chrysler-MB link that Mercedes expand their branding to the entire line.

So no there wasn't "general knowledge" that it was a Mercedes. If anything people though of them as Freightliners.

but you're not all that savvy about cars... so I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Actually, the Sprinter was marketed solely as a Freightliner in the US until 2003 when Dodge gained access to them as well. Mercedes badging didn't start until 2008 and even then only on the "limo" models. It wasn't until the Dodge version was canceled with the severing of the Chrysler-MB link that Mercedes expand their branding to the entire line.

So no there wasn't "general knowledge" that it was a Mercedes. If anything people though of them as Freightliners.

but you're not all that savvy about cars... so I wouldn't expect you to know that.

What's funny is I remember seeing Sprinters badged as Mercs (w/ CO plates in CO) at least 6-7 years ago or more, so some owners must have been rebadging them.. but I already knew they were Mercs since I'd seen them in Europe when across the pond..

Edited March 9, 201115 yr by Cubical-aka-Moltar

Actually, the Sprinter was marketed solely as a Freightliner in the US until 2003 when Dodge gained access to them as well. Mercedes badging didn't start until 2008 and even then only on the "limo" models. It wasn't until the Dodge version was canceled with the severing of the Chrysler-MB link that Mercedes expand their branding to the entire line.

So no there wasn't "general knowledge" that it was a Mercedes. If anything people though of them as Freightliners.

but you're not all that savvy about cars... so I wouldn't expect you to know that.

What's funny is I remember seeing Sprinters badged as Mercs at least 6-7 years ago or more, so some owners must have been rebadging them.. but I already knew they were Mercs since I'd seen them in Europe when across the pond..

They were sold as Benz in Mexico since the beginning of time.

Personally, to me it's 100% obvious they're not domestic products. I'm gonna go ahead & guess that same quick realization occurred to at least a few others, too. So 'Mercedes', 'Dodge' or 'Freightliner' - same difference.

Now; times 10 with the doblo.

>>"but you're not all that savvy about cars... so I wouldn't expect you to know that. "<<

Yeah- the day I memorize the intricate shell games mercedees plays is the day I take up crocheting & burn my library.

They were sold as Benz in Mexico since the beginning of time.

Speaking of Mexico, there is a Sprinter-E w/ the V12 made there..wild.

Edited March 9, 201115 yr by Cubical-aka-Moltar

>>"Actually, the Sprinter was marketed solely as a Freightliner in the US until 2003 when Dodge gained access to them as well. Mercedes badging didn't start until 2008 and even then only on the "limo" models. It wasn't until the Dodge version was canceled with the severing of the Chrysler-MB link that Mercedes expand their branding to the entire line. "<<

Wait, so doesn't this mean to the average dumb consumer that mercedees just rebadged a... a... Dodge ???

Actually, the Sprinter was marketed solely as a Freightliner in the US until 2003 when Dodge gained access to them as well. Mercedes badging didn't start until 2008 and even then only on the "limo" models. It wasn't until the Dodge version was canceled with the severing of the Chrysler-MB link that Mercedes expand their branding to the entire line.

The show "American Pickers" has what appears to be a pre-2008 Mercedes Sprinter. It has already left the guys sitting by the side of the road once in an episode... and in the same episode the Mike's brother shows up to tow it, and calls it "The old truck", implying that it is considerably older than 2008. They are in Iowa, so a Mexican refugee is unlikely.

I've heard some rumor they replace it with a "newer" Dodge Sprinter, but I didn't see that... and I think people may be mistaken.

Sounds like they are going to get a Turkish-built Doblo.

2013 Ram van-Doblo based

^

>>"Chrysler says the seven-year deal with TOFAS calls for 190,000 Doblos to be shipped to North America. "<<

Transit Connect is selling right about 30K units, wonder where Chrysliat thinks 27K more annual units in this tiny segment is going to come from?