Specifically, Buickman.

Sorry if I'm too nosy or something, but can anyone tell me what's the beef with that? How did it evolve from a mugshot on the frontpage to public enemy #1 who constantly rags "die, Rick die"?

There was a blackout period between me and C&G a while ago, so I'm curious.

Please admins, remove my post if it's inappropriate.

Frankly, I was wondering the same thing. A year ago, Rick seemed to be a C&G darling; now, I see his postings raise the ire of many people on this board. Not knowing too much about his history, I have been puzzled by this. And I also agree that his rants seem to be very focused and uni-directional these days.

oops, i guess its not a harry thread!

Here is a brief synopsis of Buickman, though really he should tell his own story. Again, this is of what I remember.

Buickman first came to C&G before the Big Crash promoting his site, his cause, and The Plan, which was his multi-part ultimatum that he believed would help save General Motors from dire financial straits. At first, The Plan was not made public and people were asked to e-mail him and he would respond with a copy of The Plan. The reason given for this was because the ideas contained within his first 20 Steps was so critical that if others in the industry (i.e. competitors) were to find out, they'd be able to successfully leverage parts of The Plan to help them and hurt GM further.

The main focus of the original 20 Points was very dealer-centric, discussing things like lowering incentives, offering salesmen specialized training, something with Internet sales, and other details of which I don't remember exactly. Many people disagreed with his points, citing that the fact that they were so focused on the dealership side of the equation that they ignored the real problem - you can't sell crap no matter how hard you try; i.e. build a good product, and it'll sell itself.

I believe it was around this time that Buickman started focusing alot of the blame on Rick Wagoner, who he clearly feels is responsible for GM's latest failings. Again, many disagreed citing that he is but a drop in a sea of problems GM has experienced and caused for itself over decades.

At some point, the debates became more contentious, mainly because of Buickman's refusal to publically post The Plan and also his insistance on not discussing or replying to arguments about it publically, instead asking people to contact him directly. At this point, the Administration of C&G began to see Buickman more as freeloading off our forums while not contributing anything (redirecting commentary to him directly on his site or off our board). Eventually, he did post his 20 Points publically for discussion, but shortly after his banning at another GM-realted forum, he left here voluntarily and frankly, not that nicely.

Around the same time, however, there were plans in the works for Josh to schedule and interview with Dollinger to discuss his Plan in depth and such. This was when he was rather 'hot' in the automotive media. For some reason or another, the interview never happened and sometime in late November of last year, Josh told us he didn't want to conduct the interview anymore and didn't wish to have him be a part of the site. Seeing that much of the membership felt the same (he was also banned from another forum or two), we kindly asked Dollinger that if he wasn't going to go ahead and discuss things here with the membership calmly and rationally without always insisting he was correct and others just 'couldn't get it' that he focus on his own website rather than ours.

My problem with Dollinger is from an administrative perspective. Everyone is certainly to say and express themselves in whatever fashion they choose. However, when the majority of the site expresses discontent at his presence AND he has made personal attacks towards the membership (granted, barbs have been traded evenly), AND he chooses to conduct himself in a manner that seems more atuned to self-promotion rather than genuine discussion, I have to question the need for him to be here.

To be completely honest, if he would tone down the rhetoric a lot and answer some questions with real answers besides scapegoating Rick Wagoner, I wouldn't have a problem with him being here.

That may be alot to say and sorry if you actually read it all, but I've always believed in being candid when its appropriate. That's my story on it. The timing may be off a bit, but the gist is there.

I agree. That said, I have a hard time imagining a Buickman "epiphany" that will cause him to suddenly conduct himself more appropriately.

I read the whole of it. Eloquently said and good analysis. That said, his hubris probably won't allow him to back down from his high place.

Thanks Fly.

How do I miss things like this?

I feel like I read most things here, yet half the time I'm left wondering what is going on when someone like Fly can sum it up so nicely. Maybe my memory is bad? Who knows...