27 minutes ago, Stew said:

I am stung by the Kia Stinger GT.  Local dealer has one, GT2 AWD, basically as loaded as it gets.  I am shocked how low and wide it looks in person, love it.  It just works. 

I also think the 2.0T version offers a nice alternative to the higher trimmed level family sedans like the Accord, Malibu, Camry, Fusion, Legacy, Regal, Mazda6 etc.

 

After 20 years of living in dry inland states (Colorado and Arizona), living now less than 20 miles from a coast has piqued my interest in coastal towns, beaches and interesting  structures along the coasts of the Great Lakes.  A few pics I've taken in the last few of months along Lake Erie. 

On 1/9/2018 at 4:49 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

That's pretty funny...I don't mind driving in snowy conditions, but I loathe ice.     As far as the gas guzzler list--woo hoo--Trackhawk!   Surprised the Hellcat Challenger and Charger aren't on that list...

Yep...ice really sucks!

Talk about Mud Fun Sliding, Prius with driver caught in mudslide flowing down the road.

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2018/01/11/prius-slides-down-hill-propelled-california-mudslide/109365532/

More amazing pics of the mudslides in CA.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Prius-swept-away-Burbank-mudslide-video-rain-12491505.php

 

On 1/10/2018 at 11:48 AM, ccap41 said:

A lot of enthusiasts hate it because it's a Kia but I think it is a damn good looking car and it's a sport sedan, what's really not to like about it? 

I sent pictures to my brother and he said "but it's a Kia".  I like his ATS, don't get me wrong, but I would take that Loaded kia Stinger GT.  It is topped out at 52k.  The dealer had a 5k markup on it which made me laugh a bit. 

On 1/10/2018 at 12:28 PM, frogger said:

I also think the 2.0T version offers a nice alternative to the higher trimmed level family sedans like the Accord, Malibu, Camry, Fusion, Legacy, Regal, Mazda6 etc.

 

Very true, for what it is 31k is a steal for the 2.0T RWD

dfelt, immediately came to mind about Prius mudslide:

1) Is this Toyota's solution so we can hear Prius' approach in electric mode?

2) I didn't see that hybrid propulsion option when I bought my Prius!?!?!

3) I wonder if it actually has better road feel and feedback in a mudslide?

4) building on #2 - Prius now with degenerative hill propulsion and Regenerate braking.... 

5) "Let's Go Places" Can we narrow this down a bit, and maybe set some limits? 

6) Damn resale value on that Prius will still be higher than on a 1 yr old Nissan Leaf... 

7) I still think express Lane privilege is unfair to hybrid drivers...

Etc etc etc etc 

 

Newstand Motor Trend has a 3-way test: Bolt, Model 3 & Leaf.

The Tesla's as-tested price was $60,500.

That is all.

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Newstand Motor Trend has a 3-way test: Bolt, Model 3 & Leaf.

The Tesla's as-tested price was $60,500.

That is all.

No surprises..that's the price range for loaded 3-series, C-classes, etc...the compact sport luxury niche is it's target..

Welcome back @VenSeattle!!

None of those other sedans mentioned ever advertised themselves as "affordable" and none took pre-orders based solely on "$27,500" pricing (after tax credit).

Edited January 12, 20187 yr by balthazar

15 hours ago, Stew said:

I sent pictures to my brother and he said "but it's a Kia".  I like his ATS, don't get me wrong, but I would take that Loaded kia Stinger GT.  It is topped out at 52k.  The dealer had a 5k markup on it which made me laugh a bit.

Exactly... there's nothing wrong with it. It's looks are subjective but the performance of the 3.3T speak for itself. Plus, the inside looks fantastic, if you ask me. I like the ATS but i think if I had 40k to spend on one of them I'd get the Stinger GT. 

The "base" GT plus AWD is $41,xxx. LED headlights, Brembo brakes, limited slip diff(on the RWD one), etc... I'd take that for 40k. 

That markup is a joke though. Give it a few months of slow sales and that will become a discount, hahaha. 

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

None of those other sedans mentioned ever advertised themselves as "affordable" and none took pre-orders based solely on "$27,500" pricing (after tax credit).

None of those other cars only other siblings are 100k cars(or starting in the 70's like the Model S).

We also have no clue how many of those pre-orders were based on $27,500. Maybe 1%, maybe 99%. 

It was marketed as the "affordable Tesla", if I remember correctly. 

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

None of those other cars only other siblings are 100k cars(or starting in the 70's like the Model S).

We also have no clue how many of those pre-orders were based on $27,500. Maybe 1%, maybe 99%. 

It was marketed as the "affordable Tesla", if I remember correctly. 

What other models the brand has starts at is immaterial. 450K people aren't buying the Model S- they are NOT consumers for that car, or sales would be a LOT higher than 23K annually.

When pre-ordering was opened up, there was only a concept image and the scant description of "an affordable Tesla sedan starting at $35K". Of course, the tax credit information was a well-known component, also. So how can any other conclusion be reached with those few facts? If price was not a factor for '99%', why did Model S sales drop 6% last year? 100s of thousands of buyers could be in their Teslas RIGHT NOW (assuming -for the moment- production capability). "$35K (=$27K)" was a factor in 2/3rds of the pre-orders, if not 75%.

53 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Exactly... there's nothing wrong with it. It's looks are subjective but the performance of the 3.3T speak for itself. Plus, the inside looks fantastic, if you ask me. I like the ATS but i think if I had 40k to spend on one of them I'd get the Stinger GT. 

The "base" GT plus AWD is $41,xxx. LED headlights, Brembo brakes, limited slip diff(on the RWD one), etc... I'd take that for 40k. 

That markup is a joke though. Give it a few months of slow sales and that will become a discount, hahaha. 

Agree al the way and should be a hell of a value on the used market.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 20187 yr by Stew

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

an affordable Tesla sedan starting at $35K

Every single manufacturer markets crap like that.  

It is still  the "affordable Tesla". 

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

So how can any other conclusion be reached with those few facts? If price was not a factor for '99%', why did Model S sales drop 6% last year?

Seems pretty obvious that those people weren't in line for the 35k one if they were originally planing to buy, at minimum, a 74k Model S. 

Are most cars bought at the bare bones base model at the least possible price or are there more LS, LT, and Premier Malibus running around?  Or are most of them base model, "L" trims? Same with trucks(excluding work trucks for obvious reasons) there are easily more LT and up trim trucks out there than LS. No way were 75% of these buyers planning to spend 35k before tax incetive. I'd bet most planned to spend 35k AFTER tax incentive. 

43 minutes ago, Stew said:

Agree al the way and should be a hell of a value on the used market.

 

 

 

 

I just hope enough sell to have a good used market to choose from. 

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Every single manufacturer markets crap like that.  

It is still  the "affordable Tesla". 

Seems pretty obvious that those people weren't in line for the 35k one if they were originally planing to buy, at minimum, a 74k Model S. 

Are most cars bought at the bare bones base model at the least possible price or are there more LS, LT, and Premier Malibus running around?  Or are most of them base model, "L" trims? Same with trucks(excluding work trucks for obvious reasons) there are easily more LT and up trim trucks out there than LS. No way were 75% of these buyers planning to spend 35k before tax incetive. I'd bet most planned to spend 35k AFTER tax incentive. 

I just hope enough sell to have a good used market to choose from. 

Indeed

6 minutes ago, Stew said:

Indeed

Just hearing about a markup is annoying though. I don't feel like there is a big enough hardcore Kia fanbase willing to pay a premium for them. I hope that doesn't discourage people from buying them down the road.

I also wouldn't want that red.. not a pretty shade, imo. 

I just looked on Autotrader and within 300 miles of me there are ONLY blue ones available..WTF? 

Edited January 12, 20187 yr by ccap41

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Just hearing about a markup is annoying though. I don't feel like there is a big enough hardcore Kia fanbase willing to pay a premium for them. I hope that doesn't discourage people from buying them down the road.

I also wouldn't want that red.. not a pretty shade, imo. 

I just looked on Autotrader and within 300 miles of me there are ONLY blue ones available..WTF? 

Not a big red fan myself.  The color Pallet seems very limited, seems like 5 colors are available and sadly no sharp grey. 

20 minutes ago, Stew said:

Not a big red fan myself.  The color Pallet seems very limited, seems like 5 colors are available and sadly no sharp grey. 

Panthera Metal looks pretty good.

41 minutes ago, Stew said:

Not a big red fan myself.  The color Pallet seems very limited, seems like 5 colors are available and sadly no sharp grey. 

Pretty weak..looked at the Kia BYO site--the 2.0 version is only available in 3 colors--black, white, silver and with only a black interior.   The GT only offers 6 colors--2 are silver--and also mostly black interiors with black and red interior on a couple colors..they need to work on expanding their color palette...

Edited January 12, 20187 yr by Cubical-aka-Moltar

55 degrees here before the storm hits, so I took a walk along the river during lunch. Interesting fog hanging over the river.

Enjoy it before the storm. It's cold as F now. 

That's some... yellow... paint.

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

That's some... yellow... paint.

It's HDR+ photography... so take that as somewhat enhanced.

It's still yellow tho, right?

Just now, balthazar said:

It's still yellow tho, right?

Yup. Most of our bridges are yellow. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It is still  the "affordable Tesla". 

Seems pretty obvious that those people weren't in line for the 35k one if they were originally planing to buy, at minimum, a 74k Model S.

2018 Model S 75D starts at $62.7K according to OEM website. Motor trend just printed an EV comparison with a Model 3, and it's sticker was $60.5K. That's a ways away from 'affordable, both in general, and relative to the Model S.

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

2018 Model S 75D starts at $62.7K according to OEM website. Motor trend just printed an EV comparison with a Model 3, and it's sticker was $60.5K. That's a ways away from 'affordable, both in general, and relative to the Model S.

It only "starts" there if you qualify for the full 7500 federal credit and include your "estimated gas savings". 

Then add in the $1200 destination fee. 

Do you include final price for all EV's with the "potential gas savings"? 

No- that's 'shell game' tactics in my book. Awful sneaky of Tesla.
Doesn't change my point, IMO: what initially was only bandied about as "$35K", then as "$42-49K" is now surpassing $60K, all within a 1000 cars production time.

Frankly, I don't feel the common Bolt sticker of $43K (not including any "estimated savings"/ credits) is "affordable" either.

Edited January 12, 20187 yr by balthazar

'46 Cadillac Woody Wagon, for sale via Hemings: $135K

COOL, GM is asking Uncle Sam to allow them to have true driverless auto's in the US. A modified BOLT with no steering wheel and pedals, the front left seat would be open for passengers.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-selfdriving/no-pedal-to-the-metal-in-gms-planned-self-driving-cruise-av-car-idUSKBN1F10DT

 

Drivers ARE passengers.

Jayne Mansfield, tho in a '65 Bonneville, rather than the '66 Electra 225 in which she was killed.

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

A confused Oldsmobile.  I saw a '55 Cadillac 4dr that was double ended like this parked at a gas station off I-80 in Wyoming in the early oughts..

Was it this one?

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Was it this one?

Yes, that's it...stopped there for gas and did a walk around..I took a couple pics, but it was like 16 years ago I was there.. 

Engine Bay of FWD '35 Cord 810 or 812, with transmission ahead of engine block:

Neat...speaking of Cords,   I saw this red 37 812 convertible yesterday at the Jazz Age exhibit at the Cleveland Museum of Art.

Yesterday was a cold, snowy day, so I had a culture outing to the University Circle neighborhood of Cleveland.  First the Cleveland Museum of Art to see the Jazz Age exhibit, then dinner at Severance Restaurant at Severance Hall followed by the Cleveland Symphony at Severance Hall performing Mahler's 9th Symphony.    Today, though is football Sunday. 

 

 

There was a 25 Rolls Royce on display at the museum also. 

Edited January 14, 20187 yr by Cubical-aka-Moltar

Spent yesterday Skiing 17.56 Miles in the morning and wine tasting in the afternoon. Was a great Saturday!

Gas fill up by the Fred Meyers by my house and they have a New Tesla Supercharging station going in!

Sking the 37" of fresh Powder on Double Diamond was a Blast!

Stopped by Columbia Winery and had a tasty tasting and picked up some for later!

Relaxed at Home Watching Jason Bourne Movie and enjoying an 08 Cab Sauv! 

Need some wine myself...

And more snow....wonder when I can wash the cars again....

17 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

And more snow....wonder when I can wash the cars again....

April 2018!  

Love this new Bike Concept, very cool!

 

Im waiting until Saturday to wash the Jeep again.  Supposed to be in the 50s.  Was snowing off and on all day today.  

39 minutes ago, dfelt said:

April 2018!  

 

At this rate....maybe!!! 

34 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Love this new Bike Concept, very cool!

 

Now that is a bike!

I assume the Rolls at the 'American Style' exhibit was U.S. built in the 14 years RR had a factory here ('21-35).

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