Lol, since when do low-profile tires keep a vehicle from performing well in the snow?? My Audi A4, and both my and my friend's E90's must not have gotten that message.

https://youtu.be/5UwOBKSHl-c?t=3m51s

 

 

There are countless low-profile tires that will make even a RWD car a beast in the snow. I drove my RWD 335i all winter long last year with 18"s in 8+ inches of snow.

 

Try driving a lifted truck with with some MT's on it in the snow, and get back to me on whether or not it's the aspect ratio of the tires that gives a car winter traction. Lol.

 

Oh, and Olds- the X6 has no job. It's a cash grab. Nothing more.

 

The argument is not about what quality and type of low profile tire....the argument is about the X5s low profile rubber...

And even then...high profile,  thick snow tread and skinny tires are the best for snow...

I had the lowish profile 16 inch all season  Goodyear RS-As on my 1999 Olds Alero...225/50/16s....stock tires from the factory...and I did great in snow with the Alero...FWD is all that I need...so...I also had crappy Canadian Tire 14 or 15 inch summer tires on my uncle's full sized Chevy Van...and I managed...and as a rookie driver...that is not the issue...

 

The X6 as a money grab...I dont have an issue with that...BMW is a business....they need to make the dough...and it sells....no issues with me on that...Ultimate Driving machine slogans...and them peddling that crap as Sports Activity Vehicles...is what I have issues with...and fanboys having double standards...you Frisky...are less bad than some others I know...which is all good...because at least we could have decent dialogue and we have fun talking together....that is what counts with me and you.

Edited June 4, 201510 yr by oldshurst442

 

Both the SRX and XTS use a Haldex AWD system that can send 90% of the torque to the rear wheels as needed.  It is every bit an AWD system as Audi's Quattro. 

 

The XTS and XTS V-Sport are very different beasts on the road that you almost cannot compare the two in any meaningful way besides the size.  The regular XTS is soft on torque and uses air springs for a soft ride.  

 

The XTS V-Sport has the 410hp Twin Turbo V6 with 369 lb-ft from 1900 rpm all the way to 5600 rpm. It also sports Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control (or Magic Ride Control as I like to call it) that takes those air springs and firms everything up to make the big girl dance.  What it really needs is some better brakes. 

 

That's like saying a 2WD Silverado is every bit the RWD system as what's in a 458 Italia. And it's simply untrue.

 

The SRX, like other GM vehicles, uses the Gen 4 Haldex system. It is FWD biased, and does not have the same ability or feel as some other AWD systems, like some of those found in Audis. Most Audis (everything larger than A3/Q3) use traditional mechanical AWD systems with center torsen diffs. These have numerous advantages over systems like Haldex's.

 

I was specifically referring to an XTS-V. While it was unquestionably more competent than the last SHO I drove, track ready it was not.

 

 

I did say "almost".  It needs bigger brakes and the more aggressive MRC programming available in the ATS-V and CTS-V.... 

 

The XTS-V starts at $63,000 and runs into the high $70k range.  What, if anything, at BMW, Mercedes, or Audi will get you XTS-V performance in the same size package at that price?  You can't do it.  There is no more E550. A CLS550 will get you close on performance but doesn't have the room. An S550 may have the room and performance, but also costs and entire Chevrolet Malibu more.    The story repeats at BMW where you can get a 550i but sacrifice the space or get the 750i and spend $20k more. 

 

 

Both the SRX and XTS use a Haldex AWD system that can send 90% of the torque to the rear wheels as needed.  It is every bit an AWD system as Audi's Quattro. 

 

The XTS and XTS V-Sport are very different beasts on the road that you almost cannot compare the two in any meaningful way besides the size.  The regular XTS is soft on torque and uses air springs for a soft ride.  

 

The XTS V-Sport has the 410hp Twin Turbo V6 with 369 lb-ft from 1900 rpm all the way to 5600 rpm. It also sports Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control (or Magic Ride Control as I like to call it) that takes those air springs and firms everything up to make the big girl dance.  What it really needs is some better brakes. 

 

That's like saying a 2WD Silverado is every bit the RWD system as what's in a 458 Italia. And it's simply untrue.

 

The SRX, like other GM vehicles, uses the Gen 4 Haldex system. It is FWD biased, and does not have the same ability or feel as some other AWD systems, like some of those found in Audis. Most Audis (everything larger than A3/Q3) use traditional mechanical AWD systems with center torsen diffs. These have numerous advantages over systems like Haldex's.

 

I was specifically referring to an XTS-V. While it was unquestionably more competent than the last SHO I drove, track ready it was not.

 

 

I did say "almost".  It needs bigger brakes and the more aggressive MRC programming available in the ATS-V and CTS-V.... 

 

The XTS-V starts at $63,000 and runs into the high $70k range.  What, if anything, at BMW, Mercedes, or Audi will get you XTS-V performance in the same size package at that price?  You can't do it.  There is no more E550. A CLS550 will get you close on performance but doesn't have the room. An S550 may have the room and performance, but also costs and entire Chevrolet Malibu more.    The story repeats at BMW where you can get a 550i but sacrifice the space or get the 750i and spend $20k more. 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

As for German equivalents to the XTS, there are none. GM did this intentionally. And it was a smart move. But drive an XTS and an A6 3.0T back to back, and it is readily apparent where the money goes. It's not a strike against the German brands that they don't have an expensive sedan based on a mainstream offering that steps on the toes of their other offerings.

 

But I digress.

The XTS V-Sport has the 410hp Twin Turbo V6 with 369 lb-ft from 1900 rpm all the way to 5600 rpm. It also sports Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control (or Magic Ride Control as I like to call it) that takes those air springs and firms everything up to make the big girl dance.  What it really needs is some better brakes. 

Magic body control is the S-class suspension that scans the road ahead to adjust the suspension before hitting a bump.  That is where the real magic is.

 

The XTS V-Sport has the 410hp Twin Turbo V6 with 369 lb-ft from 1900 rpm all the way to 5600 rpm. It also sports Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control (or Magic Ride Control as I like to call it) that takes those air springs and firms everything up to make the big girl dance.  What it really needs is some better brakes. 

Magic body control is the S-class suspension that scans the road ahead to adjust the suspension before hitting a bump.  That is where the real magic is.

 

I wonder how fast that S-Class can scan and adjust properly on Montreal roads in the spring time...Im willing to bet...not so fast...Im willing to bet...that the S-Class drops the ball on that...

 

 

The XTS V-Sport has the 410hp Twin Turbo V6 with 369 lb-ft from 1900 rpm all the way to 5600 rpm. It also sports Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control (or Magic Ride Control as I like to call it) that takes those air springs and firms everything up to make the big girl dance.  What it really needs is some better brakes. 

Magic body control is the S-class suspension that scans the road ahead to adjust the suspension before hitting a bump.  That is where the real magic is.

 

I wonder how fast that S-Class can scan and adjust properly on Montreal roads in the spring time...Im willing to bet...not so fast...Im willing to bet...that the S-Class drops the ball on that...

 

 

it's actually pretty good at it... but it is completely geared towards being soft rather than performance. 

 

 

 

The XTS V-Sport has the 410hp Twin Turbo V6 with 369 lb-ft from 1900 rpm all the way to 5600 rpm. It also sports Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control (or Magic Ride Control as I like to call it) that takes those air springs and firms everything up to make the big girl dance.  What it really needs is some better brakes. 

Magic body control is the S-class suspension that scans the road ahead to adjust the suspension before hitting a bump.  That is where the real magic is.

 

I wonder how fast that S-Class can scan and adjust properly on Montreal roads in the spring time...Im willing to bet...not so fast...Im willing to bet...that the S-Class drops the ball on that...

 

 

it's actually pretty good at it... but it is completely geared towards being soft rather than performance. 

 

Well..roads that are full of pot holes...Ithink its a more intelligent approach to go with soft rather than performance.

So...I guess if the S-Class could adjust quickly and be quite good at it to smoothen the ride  of pot hole infested Montreal and Detroit roads, then magic sure seems to be the correct terminology to describe M-B's system.

It's far too fat to be geared for performance.

What Clarkson proved in his X6 test is how over rated all wheel drive is.  Tires matter more.  Obviously 4 drive wheels gives better traction thatn 2 all other things being equal.  But people over rate all wheel drive. 

 

My car has 245/40 ZR18 tires in the front and 265/35 ZR18 in the rear.  With summer tires it would be useless.  With Blizzaks I have driven it through 2 winters of snow without much of any problem.  Getting up a hill from a stop can be a challenge.  But the tires are what matter for grip, not the drive wheels.

The S-class is a luxury car, of course the the magic body control and air springs are going to go for comfort.  That is the hallmark of the S-class, that legendary ride quality.

 

 

Firstly, it looks great. The best looking crossover this size on the market, imo.

 

That said, it sucks to see this being a casualty to the conversion to a FWD-based platform. I know it makes good business sense, but still. The current X1 is really an underrated little ride. It's essentially a slightly lifted E91. And with the 3.0 I6, it's quite the sleeper.

 

Oh, and the SRX, like the Equinox it's based on, sucks.

So Dingo, Please reread the story above as this DOES NOT have the I6 but a lowly 4 banger that is transverse and being used to mostly go FWD but on slippage use the AWD system to work.

 

Also if the SRX and Equinox suck so bad, then state facts please, do not just say it sucks unless you want to clarify it by saying some other personal pet peeve with the auto's.

 

Please support and back up your statements with facts not just useless english words.

 

 

 

I don't need to reread the story, YOU need to reread my POST.

 

I understand this vehicle no longer will use an I6. I specifically stated 'current X1' in my post- the E84. Which is available with the N55.

 

State facts? Okay.

 

The interior is cheap, they're outdated, they're overpriced, and until the 3.6 got shoved in them, they were powertrain disasters. Hows that?

 

If the interior is cheap then how do you justify these current interior images of the BMW X1 top and the SRX bottom pictures?

 

 

SRX is equal and in my opinion far superior to what BMW does in their auto's.

 

In regards to the power trains, the Turbo engine they put in the initial SRX version 2.0 was a very good power train just a bit thirsty. Perfect? No, but that did not stop them from out selling many other brands including the Germans.

What Clarkson proved in his X6 test is how over rated all wheel drive is.  Tires matter more.  Obviously 4 drive wheels gives better traction thatn 2 all other things being equal.  But people over rate all wheel drive. 

 

My car has 245/40 ZR18 tires in the front and 265/35 ZR18 in the rear.  With summer tires it would be useless.  With Blizzaks I have driven it through 2 winters of snow without much of any problem.  Getting up a hill from a stop can be a challenge.  But the tires are what matter for grip, not the drive wheels.

 

This 100%.

 

RWD with snows on will embarass AWD with performance or plain all seasons.

 

 

 

Firstly, it looks great. The best looking crossover this size on the market, imo.

 

That said, it sucks to see this being a casualty to the conversion to a FWD-based platform. I know it makes good business sense, but still. The current X1 is really an underrated little ride. It's essentially a slightly lifted E91. And with the 3.0 I6, it's quite the sleeper.

 

Oh, and the SRX, like the Equinox it's based on, sucks.

So Dingo, Please reread the story above as this DOES NOT have the I6 but a lowly 4 banger that is transverse and being used to mostly go FWD but on slippage use the AWD system to work.

 

Also if the SRX and Equinox suck so bad, then state facts please, do not just say it sucks unless you want to clarify it by saying some other personal pet peeve with the auto's.

 

Please support and back up your statements with facts not just useless english words.

 

 

 

I don't need to reread the story, YOU need to reread my POST.

 

I understand this vehicle no longer will use an I6. I specifically stated 'current X1' in my post- the E84. Which is available with the N55.

 

State facts? Okay.

 

The interior is cheap, they're outdated, they're overpriced, and until the 3.6 got shoved in them, they were powertrain disasters. Hows that?

 

If the interior is cheap then how do you justify these current interior images of the BMW X1 top and the SRX bottom pictures?

 

BMW-X1-toSRX-Interiors.jpg

 

SRX is equal and in my opinion far superior to what BMW does in their auto's.

 

In regards to the power trains, the Turbo engine they put in the initial SRX version 2.0 was a very good power train just a bit thirsty. Perfect? No, but that did not stop them from out selling many other brands including the Germans.

 

 

 

Maybe you should check one of my other posts where I also accused the X3 of being cheap inside. It's certainly no worse than the SRX though, and kills it in the driving dynamics department.

 

The old Saab 2.8TT was mediocre at best. The 3.0 was underpowered. The 3.6 is decent.

 

What Clarkson proved in his X6 test is how over rated all wheel drive is.  Tires matter more.  Obviously 4 drive wheels gives better traction thatn 2 all other things being equal.  But people over rate all wheel drive. 

 

My car has 245/40 ZR18 tires in the front and 265/35 ZR18 in the rear.  With summer tires it would be useless.  With Blizzaks I have driven it through 2 winters of snow without much of any problem.  Getting up a hill from a stop can be a challenge.  But the tires are what matter for grip, not the drive wheels.

 

This 100%.

 

RWD with snows on will embarass AWD with performance or plain all seasons.

 

 

I have ran a total of 4 sets of tires on my Fusion Sport AWD before trading it in recently for another Fusion 2.0L AWD.

I have owned many AWD vehicles, and even with tires that have barely any tread on them, I can still out accelerate ANY RWD vehicle on the road, regardless of what tires they have on.  AWD works, rain, sleet or snow.

AWD has benefit in bad weather over RWD, but if you put summer only tires on an all wheel drive car, what happened to Clarkson in the X6 will happen, doesn't matter if you have 8 wheel drive if the tires have no grip.

 

As far as the X1 vs SRX, they aren't the same class.  The X1 is cheaper and 14 inches shorter in length.  The X1 is smaller than an ATS, the Mercedes GLA is even smaller, almost Buick Encore sized.

 

 

What Clarkson proved in his X6 test is how over rated all wheel drive is.  Tires matter more.  Obviously 4 drive wheels gives better traction thatn 2 all other things being equal.  But people over rate all wheel drive. 

 

My car has 245/40 ZR18 tires in the front and 265/35 ZR18 in the rear.  With summer tires it would be useless.  With Blizzaks I have driven it through 2 winters of snow without much of any problem.  Getting up a hill from a stop can be a challenge.  But the tires are what matter for grip, not the drive wheels.

 

This 100%.

 

RWD with snows on will embarass AWD with performance or plain all seasons.

 

 

I have ran a total of 4 sets of tires on my Fusion Sport AWD before trading it in recently for another Fusion 2.0L AWD.

I have owned many AWD vehicles, and even with tires that have barely any tread on them, I can still out accelerate ANY RWD vehicle on the road, regardless of what tires they have on.  AWD works, rain, sleet or snow.

 

 

Yeah, sure. I'll just ignore the laws of traction and physics based on your anecdotal evidence.

AWD has benefit in bad weather over RWD, but if you put summer only tires on an all wheel drive car, what happened to Clarkson in the X6 will happen, doesn't matter if you have 8 wheel drive if the tires have no grip.

 

As far as the X1 vs SRX, they aren't the same class.  The X1 is cheaper and 14 inches shorter in length.  The X1 is smaller than an ATS, the Mercedes GLA is even smaller, almost Buick Encore sized.

 

I would not run summer tires on anything in the winter.  Tread compounds is key here.  

 

 

 

What Clarkson proved in his X6 test is how over rated all wheel drive is.  Tires matter more.  Obviously 4 drive wheels gives better traction thatn 2 all other things being equal.  But people over rate all wheel drive. 

 

My car has 245/40 ZR18 tires in the front and 265/35 ZR18 in the rear.  With summer tires it would be useless.  With Blizzaks I have driven it through 2 winters of snow without much of any problem.  Getting up a hill from a stop can be a challenge.  But the tires are what matter for grip, not the drive wheels.

 

This 100%.

 

RWD with snows on will embarass AWD with performance or plain all seasons.

 

 

I have ran a total of 4 sets of tires on my Fusion Sport AWD before trading it in recently for another Fusion 2.0L AWD.

I have owned many AWD vehicles, and even with tires that have barely any tread on them, I can still out accelerate ANY RWD vehicle on the road, regardless of what tires they have on.  AWD works, rain, sleet or snow.

 

 

Yeah, sure. I'll just ignore the laws of traction and physics based on your anecdotal evidence.

 

If you did use the laws and physics approach, calculations would have to include a 2X factor for AWD that will typically trump any slightly greater coefficient factor as a result of tread compounds, tire design, etc. Especially when you consider the additional weight over the front wheels.

 

But hey, you are a big boy.  You can choose any approach you like 

 

 

 

 

What Clarkson proved in his X6 test is how over rated all wheel drive is.  Tires matter more.  Obviously 4 drive wheels gives better traction thatn 2 all other things being equal.  But people over rate all wheel drive. 

 

My car has 245/40 ZR18 tires in the front and 265/35 ZR18 in the rear.  With summer tires it would be useless.  With Blizzaks I have driven it through 2 winters of snow without much of any problem.  Getting up a hill from a stop can be a challenge.  But the tires are what matter for grip, not the drive wheels.

 

This 100%.

 

RWD with snows on will embarass AWD with performance or plain all seasons.

 

 

I have ran a total of 4 sets of tires on my Fusion Sport AWD before trading it in recently for another Fusion 2.0L AWD.

I have owned many AWD vehicles, and even with tires that have barely any tread on them, I can still out accelerate ANY RWD vehicle on the road, regardless of what tires they have on.  AWD works, rain, sleet or snow.

 

 

Yeah, sure. I'll just ignore the laws of traction and physics based on your anecdotal evidence.

 

If you did use the laws and physics approach, calculations would have to include a 2X factor for AWD that will typically trump any slightly greater coefficient factor as a result of tread compounds, tire design, etc. Especially when you consider the additional weight over the front wheels.

 

But hey, you are a big boy.  You can choose any approach you like 

 

 

 

So by your logic an AWD vehicle with race slicks is going to outperform a FWD or RWD with grooved/water shedding tread in the rain, simply because it has more driven wheels......gotcha.

 

I don't think there's any else to be discussed here, carry on.

AWD with the proper tire combo for the weather I would take over any FWD or RWD. Just love the extra grip and pull of AWD.

Obviously all things being equal AWD will outperform 2WD. But with winter tires on even RWD, and regular all seasons on most AWD systems, the AWD vehicle is getting it's ass handed to it in the snow/ice.