I will stay out of the debate as to which car is better and why.

 

I will however, say that after driving a '15 GT 6MT, I wasn't too impressed. The interior was pretty decent, the seats were great, but the drive left some to be desired, imo. Still rides poorly, still feels isolated, and the power is still it's strongest suit, even though it's not as quick as the old car. I expected more refinement and engagement out of the car, honestly. For all the talk Ford did about this car being as good as the outgoing Boss, I can tell you having driven my friend's many times for many miles, it is firmly behind it it the driving excitement department. The new Mustang GT feels to me like it should have in 2011. Just my .02.

Well, your opinion in wrong.

 

#Ford4Life

 

I kid I kid

Thanks for your opinion Frisky, but I will instead trust MT's (and my own) that stated Mustang is the more polished vehicle with a better ride and less road noise and nicer interior.

...and I will wait for them to officially post that comparo before I really get into the differences between the two.

Edited October 29, 20159 yr by El Kabong

Thanks for your opinion Frisky, but I will instead trust MT's (and my own) that stated Mustang is the more polished vehicle with a better ride and less road noise and nicer interior.

 

More polished and nicer than what?

 

A Boss 302? Yeah, but nowhere near as fun to drive.

 

An outgoing SS? Better interior, but not as good of a ride or overall refinement, imo.

 

New SS? You or nobody else can say yet since they haven't been compared, but I highly doubt it.

She was a good sport about it

On a more serious note... advance orders are basically an admission that you're willing to pay sticker price for a car, possibly more. Also, if your car is a new intro like this one (or in my case, the Zeta), you're at the mercy of everybody-the plant scheduler, the dealership, the transporters, the vendor who does stuff like ground effects and striping... EVERYBODY. I actually had the weird privilege of sitting in my car in a shipping lot several weeks before I took delivery. I also had an email from an Oshawa Body Shop manager (who was a friend's dad) informing me of my scheduled build date and stuff. Fun paper trail... but aggravating.

That's actually a very interesting story and it's really cool you got to see/sit in it before it was even shipped.

 

I couldn't imagine preordering a car, especially something brand new(design). I guess I just don't make enough to even think about paying full msrp for anything nor do I keep cars long enough to buy brand new.

 

Thanks for your opinion Frisky, but I will instead trust MT's (and my own) that stated Mustang is the more polished vehicle with a better ride and less road noise and nicer interior.

 

More polished and nicer than what?

 

A Boss 302? Yeah, but nowhere near as fun to drive.

 

An outgoing SS? Better interior, but not as good of a ride or overall refinement, imo.

 

New SS? You or nobody else can say yet since they haven't been compared, but I highly doubt it.

 

Kind of off the topic but I saw yesterday that the first shipment of '16 Camaros was shipped yesterday. So you should see them shortly.

I've been extremely blessed with the means to do stuff like that at times in my life. I actually hesitated to tell the story because I don't want to come off as an uppity asshat.

But in hindsight... I'm not sure I would do things that way again. It wasn't fun sitting in that car because I had no idea when I could even take delivery of the thing. Now, when I DID take delivery of the thing it was a bit different again

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by El Kabong

 

Thanks for your opinion Frisky, but I will instead trust MT's (and my own) that stated Mustang is the more polished vehicle with a better ride and less road noise and nicer interior.

 

More polished and nicer than what?

 

A Boss 302? Yeah, but nowhere near as fun to drive.

 

An outgoing SS? Better interior, but not as good of a ride or overall refinement, imo.

 

New SS? You or nobody else can say yet since they haven't been compared, but I highly doubt it.

 

 

new camaro

 

thanks

I suspect that when links to that MT comparo go up we will find that the Mustang's polish vanishes the instant the straight sections of road do. It's just a hunch... but it's a hunch I'd bet big on

It's fairly simple.  Would the new mustang stack up against the current ATS-V Coupe in handling?   Considering the league the ATS-V plays in, I'm betting not.

 

I expect the new Camaro and the ATS coupe (which is wider than the ATS sedan remember) will have very very similar handling dynamics.  That the SS is getting magnetic ride control means that the handling can be adjusted at the press of a button.  Very dynamic and quite polished.

After reading all that I've read about the Camaro to this point, what it looks like to me is that GM was confident enough in all other aspects of the car to burn a few points for practicality by letting Welburn's styling crew go nuts. If you dig through the blizzard of stats you will see that the Camaro is actually comparable in passenger room to the Mustang (complete with more front seat headroom!). Only the small greenhouse causes complaints, and even then parking sensors and backup cameras can be ordered to take care of any potential visibility issues.

Are their parking sensors on the front bumper?

Pretty sure they're an option at the very least. I'd be disappointed if the Camaro didn't offer a feature I have on my freaking half-ton

I think they are hidden in the grille, you won't see them on the front bumper.

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat.  Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat.  Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

 

You've driven the 2016 Camaro extensively then?  Can you do a write up on it?

 

I'm curious what parts you feel need more refining on a chassis derived from a Cadillac. 

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat. Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

Look, if GM wanted to do a Camaro for the relaxed-fit pants crowd, then they would.

...or perhaps we have forgotten that MT's Camaro tester doesn't appear to have Magnaride? Which means that a customer is only one tick of the box away from...

Ruh-roh

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by El Kabong

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat.  Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

So you have sat in and driven the new Camaro? I mean the only way I can make such an assessment is if I've done that very thing myself. Otherwise, I could not make an honest assessment about it.

But hey, at least the Mustang only has to overcome a horsepower and gear deficit next year, right?

And here I was thinking that pony cars were all about power

But hey, at least the Mustang only has to overcome a horsepower and gear deficit next year, right?

And here I was thinking that pony cars were all about power

I know right? So silly to focus on engines and trannys on a performance car.

That Grand Touring tho

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!! 

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!!

This is about performance.

On-topic, please

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!! 

Sales are not the topic of discussion here though (as you like to point out in other threads). 

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by surreal1272

I think they are hidden in the grille, you won't see them on the front bumper.

Close enough. If they didn't and the visibility was similar to the outgoing model(which it sounds like it is improved but still similar) I couldn't drive the car on a daily basis. When I sat in a 5th gen I had NO sense of where the front end was so parking would be hell at certain times.

 

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat.  Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

 

You've driven the 2016 Camaro extensively then?  Can you do a write up on it?

 

I'm curious what parts you feel need more refining on a chassis derived from a Cadillac. 

 

*hands Wings a bottle of aleo vera*

 

Here's some aleo for that BURN!!! (It helps heal burns, or skin damage in general - DOUBLE BURN FOR PRETENDING YOU DONT KNOW THE BENEFITS OF ALOE VERA ON THE SKIN!!!)

 

 

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!! 

Sales are not the topic of discussion here though (as you like to point out in other threads). 

 

Thanks for down vote on the facts again (and this time no one can use perceived condescension as an excuse). Nice to know that some save those one a day votes for just such an occasion. 

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!!

Sales are not the topic of discussion here though (as you like to point out in other threads).

Thanks for down vote on the facts again (and this time no one can use perceived condescension as an excuse). Nice to know that some save those one a day votes for just such an occasion. 

Votes aren't the topic of discussion here ( as you like to point out, in this thread ).

 

 

 

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!!

Sales are not the topic of discussion here though (as you like to point out in other threads).

Thanks for down vote on the facts again (and this time no one can use perceived condescension as an excuse). Nice to know that some save those one a day votes for just such an occasion. 

Votes aren't the topic of discussion here ( as you like to point out, in this thread ).

 

Maybe you didn't notice this, but I merely replied to my own post. I would have edited the post in question but it was too late. Thanks for your concern though.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, Ford has some work to do in the performance arena because the Camaro is clearly not playing around this time. 

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by surreal1272

Oh, and the Mustang also has a weight disadvantage going forward.... much harder to make up for than gear ratios or power deficiencies. 

Oh, and the Mustang also has a weight disadvantage going forward.... much harder to make up for than gear ratios or power deficiencies. 

It can be done though. The last gen Camaro was a heavy beast compared to the Stang but offered similar and sometimes better performance in some trims. We will see what Ford does over the next few years.

 

Oh, and the Mustang also has a weight disadvantage going forward.... much harder to make up for than gear ratios or power deficiencies. 

It can be done though. The last gen Camaro was a heavy beast compared to the Stang but offered similar and sometimes better performance in some trims. We will see what Ford does over the next few years.

 

Maybe they will take a page from the 222Zombie Mustang and do an EV with 1000lbs of Torque and 500HP with a 168mph top speed. Then we will have a fast exciting pony!

 

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat.  Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

 

You've driven the 2016 Camaro extensively then?  Can you do a write up on it?

 

I'm curious what parts you feel need more refining on a chassis derived from a Cadillac. 

 

 

 

The article is in this months MT, comparing the new SS to the GTPP.  They clearly gave the advantage on ride, nvh, visibility, interior refinement and even style, to Mustang.  I call all of that refinement, and it is much harder to simply update, and hence my remark about more power and gears is easy.

 

Thanks

 

 

Shame that GM missed the refinement boat.  Only disadvantage Mustang has to overcome next year, is more power and gears.

 

You've driven the 2016 Camaro extensively then?  Can you do a write up on it?

 

I'm curious what parts you feel need more refining on a chassis derived from a Cadillac. 

 

*hands Wings a bottle of aleo vera*

 

Here's some aleo for that BURN!!! (It helps heal burns, or skin damage in general - DOUBLE BURN FOR PRETENDING YOU DONT KNOW THE BENEFITS OF ALOE VERA ON THE SKIN!!!)

 

 

 

Sorry cap, I proved drew wrong ::::as I hand over an un-opened bottle of aloe, with a grin::::::

 

 

 

 

And by the way cap, you clearly knew that SS vs GT comparison happened, yet you pretended like it did not.  Why?  

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by Wings4Life

As GM fans love to say....

 

Sales!!! Look at them sales!!! 

 

 

What sales? 

Mustang has a huge lead, even as GM try's to unload current gen.

I've read the article in question. Who won that btw? It wasn't the Mustang, is all I know.

 

BTW, nice dodge of the original questions asked by several people here, which was "have you driven the new Camaro?".

 

 

Oh but those sales (once again only counting them when it suits you), never mind the fact that the production of those "unloaded" Camaros was greatly reduced over the last six months, which is exactly what happened to the Mustang last year when it sold a whopping 3200 cars in September 2014 alone.

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by surreal1272

I've read the article in question. Who won that btw? It wasn't the Mustang, is all I know.

 

BTW, nice dodge of the original questions asked by several people here, which was "have you driven the new Camaro?".

 

 

Oh but those sales (once again only counting them when it suits you), never mind the fact that the production of those "unloaded" Camaros was greatly reduced over the last six months, which is exactly what happened to the Mustang last year when it sold a whopping 3200 cars in September 2014 alone.

 

 

First Point:  Yeah, you read it all right....and helped to close  the thread too.  I think you hold the record for locked threads over at MT.  Congrats on that btw.

And why should I answer someones question about if I have driven the car, when they clearly said that because they did not know there was a review already?  I was clearly......CLEARLY.....talking about the MT comparison.  

 

Second Point: And way to step up with facts surreal. 

Here is a fact, my point about refinement was spot on.....per the MT comparison.  And yeah, MT stated they wanted the car with more performance.  Does that really surprise anyone?

 

And my final point  was that Mustangs problem is easily fixed with more power and gears.  Which it is.  GM can't just throw more power at it's brand new camaro failings.

 

You are welcome.

We don't need that MT drama here.

I guess the cat's out of the bag: the Camaro smoked the Mustang in that comparo. Badly.

And no, fixing the Mustang's problems won't be easy. It's fat and underpowered.

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by El Kabong

 

I've read the article in question. Who won that btw? It wasn't the Mustang, is all I know.

 

BTW, nice dodge of the original questions asked by several people here, which was "have you driven the new Camaro?".

 

 

Oh but those sales (once again only counting them when it suits you), never mind the fact that the production of those "unloaded" Camaros was greatly reduced over the last six months, which is exactly what happened to the Mustang last year when it sold a whopping 3200 cars in September 2014 alone.

 

 

First Point:  Yeah, you read it all right....and helped to close  the thread too.  I think you hold the record for locked threads over at MT.  Congrats on that btw.

And why should I answer someones question about if I have driven the car, when they clearly said that because they did not know there was a review already?  I was clearly......CLEARLY.....talking about the MT comparison.  

 

Second Point: And way to step up with facts surreal. 

Here is a fact, my point about refinement was spot on.....per the MT comparison.  And yeah, MT stated they wanted the car with more performance.  Does that really surprise anyone?

 

And my final point  was that Mustangs problem is easily fixed with more power and gears.  Which it is.  GM can't just throw more power at it's brand new camaro failings.

 

You are welcome.

 

So three questions and three dodged and completely side stepped answers and on top of that, you throw in a personal jab that has not ONE THING to do with this topic. 

 

I do love how you think only Ford can fix their issues when they have had ten years since the last real Mustang redesign, to outperform the Camaro. You would be wrong but it's funny that you think that.

 

Oh and Drew, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that we should keep the MT drama out of here?

Why are you stalking over at MT? We don't need that drama here. Unless you got another stalker account. Again

I guess the cat's out of the bag: the Camaro smoked the Mustang in that comparo. Badly.

And no, fixing the Mustang's problems won't be easy. It's fat and underpowered.

All I know is that I don't let a magazine decide how I want to feel about subjective things like refinement, hence why he was asked by three different people if he had actually sat in and driven the Camaro. 

Edited October 30, 20159 yr by surreal1272

This whole thread leaves me with an mt feeling.

I've had similar conversations along those lines with various folks in charge. They are not unaware.

 

 

I've read the article in question. Who won that btw? It wasn't the Mustang, is all I know.

 

BTW, nice dodge of the original questions asked by several people here, which was "have you driven the new Camaro?".

 

 

Oh but those sales (once again only counting them when it suits you), never mind the fact that the production of those "unloaded" Camaros was greatly reduced over the last six months, which is exactly what happened to the Mustang last year when it sold a whopping 3200 cars in September 2014 alone.

 

 

First Point:  Yeah, you read it all right....and helped to close  the thread too.  I think you hold the record for locked threads over at MT.  Congrats on that btw.

And why should I answer someones question about if I have driven the car, when they clearly said that because they did not know there was a review already?  I was clearly......CLEARLY.....talking about the MT comparison.  

 

Second Point: And way to step up with facts surreal. 

Here is a fact, my point about refinement was spot on.....per the MT comparison.  And yeah, MT stated they wanted the car with more performance.  Does that really surprise anyone?

 

And my final point  was that Mustangs problem is easily fixed with more power and gears.  Which it is.  GM can't just throw more power at it's brand new camaro failings.

 

You are welcome.

 

So three questions and three dodged and completely side stepped answers and on top of that, you throw in a personal jab that has not ONE THING to do with this topic. 

 

I do love how you think only Ford can fix their issues when they have had ten years since the last real Mustang redesign, to outperform the Camaro. You would be wrong but it's funny that you think that.

 

Oh and Drew, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that we should keep the MT drama out of here?

Why are you stalking over at MT? We don't need that drama here. Unless you got another stalker account. Again

I guess the cat's out of the bag: the Camaro smoked the Mustang in that comparo. Badly.

And no, fixing the Mustang's problems won't be easy. It's fat and underpowered.

All I know is that I don't let a magazine decide how I want to feel about subjective things like refinement, hence why he was asked by three different people if he had actually sat in and driven the Camaro. 

 

 

My only point here, that you can't seem to argue against, is that MT stated Mustang was the better all around car.  

Now, if you want to debate that, I am all about that.

 

Stay focused surreal.

Anyway, we will see if Ford can correct the performance shortcomings on the Mustang. It's obviously a good car but the Camaro has clearly set the performance bar here.

 

 

 

I've read the article in question. Who won that btw? It wasn't the Mustang, is all I know.

 

BTW, nice dodge of the original questions asked by several people here, which was "have you driven the new Camaro?".

 

 

Oh but those sales (once again only counting them when it suits you), never mind the fact that the production of those "unloaded" Camaros was greatly reduced over the last six months, which is exactly what happened to the Mustang last year when it sold a whopping 3200 cars in September 2014 alone.

 

 

First Point:  Yeah, you read it all right....and helped to close  the thread too.  I think you hold the record for locked threads over at MT.  Congrats on that btw.

And why should I answer someones question about if I have driven the car, when they clearly said that because they did not know there was a review already?  I was clearly......CLEARLY.....talking about the MT comparison.  

 

Second Point: And way to step up with facts surreal. 

Here is a fact, my point about refinement was spot on.....per the MT comparison.  And yeah, MT stated they wanted the car with more performance.  Does that really surprise anyone?

 

And my final point  was that Mustangs problem is easily fixed with more power and gears.  Which it is.  GM can't just throw more power at it's brand new camaro failings.

 

You are welcome.

 

So three questions and three dodged and completely side stepped answers and on top of that, you throw in a personal jab that has not ONE THING to do with this topic. 

 

I do love how you think only Ford can fix their issues when they have had ten years since the last real Mustang redesign, to outperform the Camaro. You would be wrong but it's funny that you think that.

 

Oh and Drew, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that we should keep the MT drama out of here?

Why are you stalking over at MT? We don't need that drama here. Unless you got another stalker account. Again

I guess the cat's out of the bag: the Camaro smoked the Mustang in that comparo. Badly.

And no, fixing the Mustang's problems won't be easy. It's fat and underpowered.

All I know is that I don't let a magazine decide how I want to feel about subjective things like refinement, hence why he was asked by three different people if he had actually sat in and driven the Camaro. 

 

 

My only point here, that you can't seem to argue against, is that MT stated Mustang was the better all around car.  

Now, if you want to debate that, I am all about that.

 

Stay focused surreal.

Focus yourself and answer the original question asked by three different people. Have you sat in and driven the new Camaro?

Anyway, we will see if Ford can correct the performance shortcomings on the Mustang. It's obviously a good car but the Camaro has clearly set the performance bar here.

 

 

Like I said, nothing a few hp's can't fix.

 

Camaro has a steeper hill to climb.....while dragging it's gold bracelet & ring adorned knuckles....

Wing, you'll do yourself more good just not responding to him. It won't benefit you or anybody else responding to him.

Ok surreal, I will be happy to answer the question, when you first tell my why they are asking. IOW, what is the context of their question.

 

 

 

Waiting....

Wing, you'll do yourself more good just not responding to him. It won't benefit you or anybody else responding to him.

 

 

Anyway, we will see if Ford can correct the performance shortcomings on the Mustang. It's obviously a good car but the Camaro has clearly set the performance bar here.

 

 

Like I said, nothing a few hp's can't fix.

 

Camaro has a steeper hill to climb.....while dragging it's gold bracelet & ring adorned knuckles....

 

Again, the Mustang has had six years since the last gen. Camaro came out, to bump up the performance game. Hasn't work so far so history is not on your side but don't let those pesky little facts keep you from trolling a little harder.

Wing, you'll do yourself more good just not responding to him. It won't benefit you or anybody else responding to him.

 

 

what, and miss out on all the fun

 

surreal, awaiting your reply so that I can answer those 3 questions you are so concerned about.

Surreal, waiting.....I am not going to go back and read 6 pages.  If you want a question answered, ask it.  

 

Wing, you'll do yourself more good just not responding to him. It won't benefit you or anybody else responding to him.

 

 

what, and miss out on all the fun

 

surreal, awaiting your reply so that I can answer those 3 questions you are so concerned about.

 

You make no sense. I asked them and you have yet to answer any of them directly. You still can't even answer the original question asked by three different people.

Ok surreal, I will be happy to answer the question, when you first tell my why they are asking. IOW, what is the context of their question.

 

 

 

Waiting....

Maybe saying it a little slower for you, with emphasis, will help.

 

HAVE...YOU...ACTUALLY...SAT...IN...OR...DRIVEN...THE...NEW...CAMARO?

OK, fair enough, even though clearly asked you to ask it in reference to the context of why they are asking it.

 

So the answer is, yes, I have sat in a Camaro.  

Where you ask?

 

Woodward Dream Cruise in August at the Chevy display. They had many models there including a convertible with the top down. 

And no, of course I did not drive one.

 

Now, kindly answer me as to why that question is asked.

 

Waiting,.......