July 7, 20178 yr First off, I'm loving all the other threads, and the participation!! With that said, this is the third and final DG thread I came up with based on the 4th of July. It's a day in celebration of independence. This installment is based on that, stand alone maker's independence from huge corporate umbrellas. The premise is simple you will only be allowed to choose from vehicles that came from manfacturers that were completely autonomous at the time. That means no Chevys post-GM. No Ferrari's or Chryslers after FCA. No Dodges after ChryCo merger. No post-Audi Lambos. No post-VW Porsches, etc, etc. Rules- 1) Maximum of 10 vehicles, as with other 4th Special DG's. 2) Any market is allowed. 3) Production cars only. 4) I will allow ONE concept. 5) I will allow ONE racecar/non-street legal selection. 6) MOST IMPORTANTLY- YOUR SELECTION MUST HAVE BEEN MADE FROM A MFR THAT AT THE TIME WAS COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT!!!! THIS MEANS NO MERGERS, NO BUY OUTS, TAKEOVERS, ETC. THAT SAID, BRANDS THAT ARE OTHERWISE ALONE, BUT HAVE JOINTLY DEVELOPED PRODUCTS- SUBARU, FOR EXAMPLE- ARE ALLOWED Here is a quick cheat-sheet for people who may have trouble figuring this one out- Mercedes Benz pre 1998 BMW pre 1994 McLaren Honda pre 1986 McLaren Subaru (no BRZ) Nissan pre 1989 (no Datsuns) Toyota pre 1989 TVR Jaguar pre 1990 Porsche pre 2011 Lamborghini pre 1998 Ferrari pre 1969 Volkswagen pre 1965 Aston Martin pre 1991 Bentley pre 1931 Rolls Royce pre 1931 Lotus pre 1986 Alfa Romeo pre 1932 Mazda pre 1996 and post 2014 Edited July 7, 20178 yr by Frisky Dingo
July 7, 20178 yr Oh, wow, interesting.... So what about a continuation Avanti....Studebaker merged with Packard in the 50's before it went bankrupt...but then the continuation cars were built by a small independent company. Also, what about cars like the Factory 5 cars that are built by an independent company but are essentially kit cars?
July 7, 20178 yr 53 Studebaker Starliner... Tesla model S P100d....that would make # 1 and 2... Caterham is independent, Caterham Lotus seven would be #3...if it were to be allowed...but that like the factory five is kind of iffy as a production car....hmmmm Lotus Elan for #3 then... Mazda is now independent, having separated from Ford, so #4 is an easy shoe in for a new 2017 Miata... Edited July 7, 20178 yr by A Horse With No Name
July 7, 20178 yr Datsun was independent when the first Z car came out...having fun with this...early 70's 240 Z... 1931 Reo Royale....
July 7, 20178 yr So that brings us to car #7... Studebaker completely absorbed Packard...and Packard was out of production by the time the Avanti came out...#7 is an Avanti... Avanti interior...always liked these as a kid...
July 7, 20178 yr Just now, Frisky Dingo said: Panoz made production cars. OK, wasn't sure what you defined as a production car....in terms of volume...
July 7, 20178 yr 1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said: Also, I hope people realize Ferrari has been a part of Fiat since 1969. I did, but thanks for bringing that up... Not sure exactly how I would spec it out, but something from Panoz would fill slot #8.
July 7, 20178 yr Author I should also not that I will allow Mercedes prior to the Daimler-ChryCo merge, based on the fact that Mercedes was the only brand that produced cars within Daimler prior to Smart.
July 7, 20178 yr #9 will be a WRX...just because I will need something sane to actually drive with all of this.. ...and for #10... Something completely different...1910 Thomas Flyer... ...an odd mix but it should do for a rainy Friday. Thanks for the series, i really enjoyed it...curious to see what everyone else comes out with..
July 7, 20178 yr Author Datsun was owned by Nissan long before the Z car came along @A Horse With No Name
July 7, 20178 yr Another Reo Royale shot... 3 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said: Datsun was owned by Nissan long before the Z car came along @A Horse With No Name OK....will replace that with.. Toyota 2000 GT...Toyota should have been independent when this came out, right? So that should make ten unless I am missing something... Edited July 7, 20178 yr by A Horse With No Name
July 7, 20178 yr Hasn't Subaru been partially owned by Toyota for a decade or so, around 20%, and by GM preceeeding that? Edited July 7, 20178 yr by frogger
July 7, 20178 yr 3 minutes ago, frogger said: Hasn't Subaru been partially owned by Toyota for a decade or so, around 20%, and by GM preceeeding that? Yes controlling interest in Subaru was owned by GM and then sold at bankruptcy in 2007 to Toyota.
July 7, 20178 yr Author GM had at one time a 20% holding of Subaru, but the brand was allowed so much autonomy and there was so little effect from the ownership that I am letting it slide for the purpose of this thread. Nothing of Subaru's at the time was ever dependent upon GM's small ownership stake. Toyota has even less at 16%. How about we leave out the BRZ and call it squared up? Edited July 7, 20178 yr by Frisky Dingo
July 8, 20178 yr Author I could have very, very easily made this a nearly all Porsche list, but I refrained, and tried to put together a nice balanced collection- Porsche 930 Turbo Carrera GT McLaren F1 HDF Kit FD3S RX7 E30 M3 Evo Diablo SV Lamborghini Miura TVR Sagaris Ferrari 250 SWB Huayra Roadster
July 8, 20178 yr The TVR and the Ferrari are my two favorite cars on your list. Love the RX 7 also...! I hate to say it but this might be my favorite of all of the lists you have done...well played sir! Also love how different our lists are...where else on the net can you find a Pagani and a brass era car in the same thread? Really excited to see everyone else's list.
July 8, 20178 yr As for Porsche if we both sat down over beer we could come up with a hundred cars easily we would both like to own...
July 8, 20178 yr 1. Ferrari GT California 2. Ferrari GT Lusso 3. Aston Martin DB5 4. 1967 Ford Fairlane 427 5. 1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL convertible 6. 1933 Ford 5 window coupe.... what the hell.... HOT RODDED! or 3 window 7. 1965 Ford Mustang GT350H 8. 1952 Hudson Hornet Twin H POWER!!! 9. Tesla Model S P100D 10. 1986 Porsche 930 Turbo Edited July 8, 20178 yr by oldshurst442
July 8, 20178 yr Not sure of Frisky Dingo and his definition of independent because Ford was aligned with Lincoln and Mercury when some of those cars were built. Never the less... 930 belongs here, air cooled 911 era Porsches are perhaps one of my favorite cars...glad to see you and Frisky both include it.
July 8, 20178 yr My mother drove that Hudson through the neighbors house trying to teach herself to drive when she was 13. Loved the 64 Ragtop in Olds Hurst post also... Also... jokingly at Frisky...fine, be that way...put up the cheat sheet after I do mine! 4 minutes ago, balthazar said: Uhh, you mean pre 1926; Mercedes & Benz is a merger. Didn't think of that... thanks! Edited July 8, 20178 yr by A Horse With No Name
July 8, 20178 yr '26 Sterling 3.5-ton: '33 Dymaxion: '48 Tucker 48 '52 Hudson Hornet 2-dr sedan, 7-X engine '52 Packard Speedster (one-off): '55 Studebaker President Speedster for bling
July 8, 20178 yr I like this List from Balthazar as well as anything he has done. Well played sir! I absolutely love the Sterling...and the Tucker! Soft spot for the Hudson also for obvious reasons.
July 8, 20178 yr 26 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said: Not sure of Frisky Dingo and his definition of independent because Ford was aligned with Lincoln and Mercury when some of those cars were built. Never the less... 930 belongs here, air cooled 911 era Porsches are perhaps one of my favorite cars...glad to see you and Frisky both include it. But....Lincoln and Mercury were brands that FoMoCo started...unlike General Motors buying Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Cadillac (from Henry Ford), Opel and the like... Ford cars....are independent...even in 2017...
July 8, 20178 yr Just now, oldshurst442 said: But....Lincoln and Mercury were brands that FoMoCo started...unlike General Motors buying Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Cadillac (from Henry Ford), Opel and the like... Ford cars....are independent...even in 2017... Fair enough...I would have possibly included Fords if I thought of them as independent. Loved your list also... ironically that 64 is one of my favorite cars in the thread!
July 8, 20178 yr 4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said: Fair enough...I would have possibly included Fords if I thought of them as independent. Loved your list also... ironically that 64 is one of my favorite cars in the thread! EDIT.... Lincoln was started by Leland...sold to Ford... Leland started Cadillac from defunct Ford cars before FoMoCo then sold it to GM... phoquing confusing if you ask me! Maybe that is why I forget sometimes the little details... But as I see things, Ford cars are independent, unless Frisky sees otherwise...and if he does, Ill redo my list and erase those Ford cars... Well, the 2 1960s entries. The 1933 Ford Hot Rod stays!!!
July 8, 20178 yr An interesting way to look @ it, oldshurst442. Ford started as an independent, could definitely be considered an independent still. Lincoln would be considered 'bought' and no longer an independent (post 1922). Where does that place Merc, tho? It wasn't purchased/merged... :ponder: I've always considered "independents" to be non- Big 3 (F, GM, Chrysler), even Stude-Pack & Hudson-Nash I still file as independents... tho I do see validity in Frisky's definition, too.
July 8, 20178 yr 27 minutes ago, balthazar said: An interesting way to look @ it, oldshurst442. Ford started as an independent, could definitely be considered an independent still. Lincoln would be considered 'bought' and no longer an independent (post 1922). Where does that place Merc, tho? It wasn't purchased/merged... :ponder: I've always considered "independents" to be non- Big 3 (F, GM, Chrysler), even Stude-Pack & Hudson-Nash I still file as independents... tho I do see validity in Frisky's definition, too. So....where do those 3 1960s entries I made stand? Ill be honest, I had a hard time convincing myself to include Ford cars because I too view independents like you do...when it comes to these threads, I always find a loop hole to circumvent the rules...this Ford thing aint no different. Tough one.... Like I said...I will agree to any points of view regarding independents and I will erase the 64 Galaxie, 67 Fairlane and 65 Mustang. The 33 Ford stays as its as independent as it gets....after Lincoln but before Mercury...and FoMoCo was not as big as it is today and many other manufacturers from all over the USA were still producing cars from Wisconsin to Indiana...not only in the Michigan area. Edited July 8, 20178 yr by oldshurst442
July 8, 20178 yr 1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said: So....where do those 3 1960s entries I made stand? Ill be honest, I had a hard time convincing myself to include Ford cars because I too view independents like you do...when it comes to these threads, I always find a loop hole to circumvent the rules...this Ford thing aint no different. Tough one.... Like I said...I will agree to any points of view regarding independents and I will erase the 64 Galaxie, 67 Fairlane and 65 Mustang. The 33 Ford stays as its as independent as it gets. I don't think rules here are hard and fast or something to worry about... besides, this way you can add three more cars!
July 8, 20178 yr 1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said: I don't think rules here are hard and fast or something to worry about... besides, this way you can add three more cars! yeah yeah yeah!!!
July 8, 20178 yr And actually Lincoln was founded by a man named leyland and as acquired by Ford in 1922 so the 1933 would in theory be ineligible and Ford is a Merger. Which means it's your turn to do a dream car garage...might I suggest you do an all Ford one? You have four fantastic choices already...and you could call the shots for that thread.
July 8, 20178 yr But the final call should be Frisky Dingo as to what is right... Personally if you wish add ten fresh choices and start from scratch...this thread is so much fun...and people here do second lists all of the time...
July 8, 20178 yr 59 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said: So....where do those 3 1960s entries I made stand? Ill be honest, I had a hard time convincing myself to include Ford cars... IMO- it's Ford '03-22, Lincon '17-22 and Merc never. [snif!]
July 8, 20178 yr 1 hour ago, balthazar said: IMO- it's Ford '03-22, Lincon '17-22 and Merc never. [snif!] Okay.... I retreat. Monday I replace all Ford entries.
July 8, 20178 yr 5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said: Okay.... I retreat. Monday I replace all Ford entries. I would still challenge you to do a dream car garage challenge yourself...be it all Ford or whatever.
July 8, 20178 yr For this I chose all from one marque to keep it simple. 1969 Porsche 911S 1970 Porsche 917K 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 1978 Porsche 930 Turbo 1984 Porsche 911 Targa 1992 Porsche 928 GTS 1996 Porsche 911S 2010 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 2010 Porsche Boxster S 2010 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
July 8, 20178 yr Author 14 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said: As for Porsche if we both sat down over beer we could come up with a hundred cars easily we would both like to own... I could come up with a list of 100+ Porsches I'd love to own in less than 5 minutes with no problem at all. 14 hours ago, balthazar said: Uhh, you mean pre 1926; Mercedes & Benz is a merger. I'm not counting it. It was effectively two independent makers at a time when full scale MFR's weren't really a thing yet.
July 12, 20178 yr On 7/7/2017 at 8:35 PM, oldshurst442 said: 1. Ferrari GT California 2. Ferrari GT Lusso 3. Aston Martin DB5 OK....I see that I need to fix this... 4. 1922 Ford T-Bucket...I am allowed 1 concept or race car after all. 5. 1985 BMW M635csi 6. Series 3 Jaguar XJ12 7. 1929 Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 GS 8. 1952 Hudson Hornet Twin H POWER!!! 9. Tesla Model S P100D 10. 1986 Porsche 930 Turbo I fixed it!!! Edited July 12, 20178 yr by oldshurst442
July 12, 20178 yr Actually i can still bust you on this one as the car in Ferris Buellers day off was a kit car and not an Actual Ferrari...(J/K) Nice list!
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