What I'm often perplexed by the most is HOW THE HELL is the Challenger ever really being called a competitor to the Mustang and Camaro in the first place? By that rationale I should call my Yukon a competitor to the Rav4.

Dodge 198″ L x 76″ W x 56-58″ H

Chevy  188-190 L x 75″ W x 53″ H

Ford  188″ L x 75″ W x 54-55″ H

Yet the first page of this thread is littered with Trunk pics. Well YEAH.. the Challenger has a bigger trunk. Its a FULL SIZE car almost the same length as an XTS

 

The Camaro used to be almost that big and got ridiculed for it. 

13 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

What I'm often perplexed by the most is HOW THE HELL is the Challenger ever really being called a competitor to the Mustang and Camaro in the first place? By that rationale I should call my Yukon a competitor to the Rav4.

Dodge 198″ L x 76″ W x 56-58″ H

Chevy  188-190 L x 75″ W x 53″ H

Ford  188″ L x 75″ W x 54-55″ H

Yet the first page of this thread is littered with Trunk pics. Well YEAH.. the Challenger has a bigger trunk. Its a FULL SIZE car almost the same length as an XTS

 

They are all 3 retro Pony cars. 

42 minutes ago, dfelt said:

That is Cadillac, I am talking a Chevrolet family series that helps to reduce cost by spreading the DNA over a wider range of products.

Chevrolet Camaro - 2 door

Chevrolet SS - 4 door

Chevrolet Blazer - 4 door CUV

etc. etc. etc.

I still believe if they truly focused on quality auto's that delivered on the performance creed and pushed down that you could have a family of auto's on a single platform that would deliver what people are wanting from fuel efficient commuter auto to performance, CUV etc.

I know what you're talking about but this would be on Alpha and I don't see any conceivable way that this would be priced enough below the Cadillac siblings to sell. 

Is this SS going to be ATS or CTS sized? 

31 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Yet the first page of this thread is littered with Trunk pics. Well YEAH.. the Challenger has a bigger trunk. Its a FULL SIZE car almost the same length as an XTS

The trunk pics were of the Mustang and Camaro. 

As @Drew Dowdell  would say, they're priced against each other targeting the same market of people. That's why they're compared. 

22 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Camaro used to be almost that big and got ridiculed for it. 

Was that the 90's-00's with the 17ft front overhang? 

49 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

again.. not true. The ATS and CTS are not exactly US only vehicles... and do decently in China. This would be like saying Buick isn't a strong brand because they are only selling about 300K in the US.. when one looks at the real numbers.. they see an additional 1 Million Globally. I'm not saying the ATS and CTS are 3Series and 5 Series selling equivalents.. but I wouldn't doubt that along with the Camaro.. at least in the Global sense they are doing pretty decently. AGAIN!!! GM is not a singular company. Judging its sales on certain other targeted vehicles is not necessarily telling. 

I said nothing about "brand" and just the two individual items, ATS and CTS, don't sell well. Compared to their copmetition, they don't.

I know I know, "THEY DON'T OFFER THE VARIATIONS THE COMPETITION DOES."

I mentioned those two vehicles because if GM decided to make a RWD Chevy sedan it would very likely be one of those platforms stretched or shrunk.

14 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I said nothing about "brand" and just the two individual items, ATS and CTS, don't sell well. Compared to their copmetition, they don't.

I know I know, "THEY DON'T OFFER THE VARIATIONS THE COMPETITION DOES."

I mentioned those two vehicles because if GM decided to make a RWD Chevy sedan it would very likely be one of those platforms stretched or shrunk.

Yeah.. they don't offer variations.. so why would they sell in the same numbers.. Its FACT.. one that detractors such as yourself love to ignore. I find it illogical and irresponsible for a supposed enthusiasts to not even recognize that there is ZERO way for an ATS to sell in the same numbers an C Class if it doesn't offer the same variety of ways to buy. 

and if GM decided to do a RWD Chevy sedan they could use one of two platforms.. the AlphaL or Omega.. depending on the desired size. It has occurred to me that due to the WHINING by certain reviewers who seemingly spend more time in the backseat of an ATS than the front.. that the Alpha (regular) platform may be scrapped in favor of the AlphaL used for the CTS and ATS-L (China) for the upcoming CT4. I also believe what I was told that the CT5 is actually on Omega already. Which would be completely plausible considering that the 5series is actually riding on a modded version of the 7Series platform

15 hours ago, ccap41 said:

 

Was that the 90's-00's with the 17ft front overhang? 

No.. that was the 2010-2016 C5 (Zeta) Camaro. It was on a full-size platform.. which was far heavier than Chevy wanted it to be. The current Alpha based Camaro is simply put.. the BEST performance sports coupe on the market hands down.. when it comes to performance.. which U'd THINK.. in the category it competes would be the thing to want.. BUT.. apparently backseat space is a thing when doing lateral gs of 1.01.. and 120mph 1/4s.  Hell.. 0-60 in 3.9secs in a car that costs $37K is INSANE. And truthfully.. the styling issue with the Camaro really hinges on ONE THING.. the EMBLEM they decided to throw on the front for some reason.. other than that.. now after seeing this live pic and not Chevy's wretched CGI (why do they do that? ) I might retract my comment about it not being as good looking as the Mustang or Chally

 

17 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

No.. that was the 2010-2016 C5 (Zeta) Camaro. It was on a full-size platform.. which was far heavier than Chevy wanted it to be. The current Alpha based Camaro is simply put.. the BEST performance sports coupe on the market hands down.. when it comes to performance.. which U'd THINK.. in the category it competes would be the thing to want.. BUT.. apparently backseat space is a thing when doing lateral gs of 1.01.. and 120mph 1/4s.  Hell.. 0-60 in 3.9secs in a car that costs $37K is INSANE. And truthfully.. the styling issue with the Camaro really hinges on ONE THING.. the EMBLEM they decided to throw on the front for some reason.. other than that.. now after seeing this live pic and not Chevy's wretched CGI (why do they do that? ) I might retract my comment about it not being as good looking as the Mustang or Chally

 

Performance alone matters when you earn money by going fast.  Since most car enthusiast are not professional racing drivers, exterior looks, interior feel and livability matters.   I am not a fanboy of a single brand and with open mind  wanted to like and maybe purchase a Camaro because it is a better performance car, but I don't really like the looks and I really hated the inside which sealed it for me.  It would be a second car for me so  I don't care about trunk or the backseat.

The FACT is that it seems majority of people who in the market for these cars seems to have similar opinions.

Edited September 26, 20187 yr by ykX

14 minutes ago, ykX said:

Performance alone matters when you earn money by going fast.  Since most car enthusiast are not professional racing drivers, exterior looks, interior feel and livability matters.   I am not a fanboy of a single brand and with open mind  wanted to like and maybe purchase a Camaro because it is a better performance car, but I don't really like the looks and I really hated the inside which sealed it for me.  It would be a second car for me so  I don't care about trunk or the backseat.

The FACT is that it seems majority of people who in the market for these cars seems to have similar opinions.

OR... the price was too high for admission as Chevy seems to think. I'd wait and see. It seems plausible that if Dodge and Ford are kicking out lower end models with a cheaper entry price then it would spawn sales. Again.. looks are subjective. Personally I think the retro looks of all should be re-evaluated. 

BTW.. amd I the only one who wants to punch a mofo in the face the next time I hear the term "Gun-Slit Windows?" Its stupid.. and writers sound like a copy cat bitch when they say it

35 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

For me the style is Meh at best, as a performance car, that front nose is just a blunt piece of steel / plastic with a curved grind on it. I honestly think the peeps in this division could not come up with a better looking nose so just took a plastic  block, ground off the side to give it a round shape and then say put the lights here, emblem here and we will use the Hideous look from Chevrolet full size trucks with the Roman gladiator side spikes and glue it onto the car and call it a day. I love a family consistent style, but in this case the Truck front end does not work on the Camaro. Green house is a problem for me as the bunker look is just so over and blah also. Interior can always use a better update.

Pro's, best damn powertrain around I think.

and as to the trunk.. apparently U can put a kid back their and the backseat with a booster

4 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

and as to the trunk.. apparently U can put a kid back their and the backseat with a booster

I thought in 2 door cars that was the only thing the rear seat was good for little kids.  Thanks for running out with the rugrats and showing us this!

23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I thought in 2 door cars that was the only thing the rear seat was good for little kids.  Thanks for running out with the rugrats and showing us this!

not my kid LOL

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

the EMBLEM they decided to throw on the front for some reason..

I said the same thing when I first saw it. That alone made everything else look worse. Move that up or down or ANYWHERE BUT THE MIDDLE OF THE BUMPER.

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

platform may be scrapped in favor of the AlphaL used for the CTS and ATS-L (China) for the upcoming CT4

That seems like it would be the ideal size. 

 

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

BTW.. amd I the only one who wants to punch a mofo in the face the next time I hear the term "Gun-Slit Windows?" Its stupid.. and writers sound like a copy cat bitch when they say it

It isn't so much the size of the windows when I sat in one as much as it was where you sat in relation to the windows. The driver seemed to sit so low it made the windows feel even smaller. 

47 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

and as to the trunk.. apparently U can put a kid back their and the backseat with a booster

That's not with @dfelt sitting in the driver's seat! 

17 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

not my kid LOL

I'm glad it isn't because who takes their kid out places in their pajamas?!

The front of the Camaro doesn't look bad on a dark gray or black car...with dark colors all the black plastic up front blends in better...but on a white, yellow, bright red car...ugh..

@ccap41 Thanks, yes you are so right, with my 6'6" frame, that seat has ZERO leg room as the seat is against the back seat. 

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@ccap41 Thanks, yes you are so right, with my 6'6" frame, that seat has ZERO leg room as the seat is against the back seat. 

Silverado outside mirrors, a roof bulge, and a periscope would make the Camaro more drivable for you..;)

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@ccap41 Thanks, yes you are so right, with my 6'6" frame, that seat has ZERO leg room as the seat is against the back seat. 

At 6'6" there probably isn't much space behind you in any vehicle, lol.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

At 6'6" there probably isn't much space behind you in any vehicle, lol.

For cars that is so true even the lovely CT6, the leg space is very limited. :(