3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Does it matter why I want a large back seat? 

LOL, try all you want to play mind games with me, will not work.

I do agree that Back seat room should still also be an important feature even on tiny CUVs like this one.

 

 

I want a large back seat because I'm American and American's are large and Cadillac should know that American's are large and we need space and this compact CUV should have adequate rear seat space for everybody because they know Americans. 

American. 

Buying a Cadillac would definitely be unfollowing the crowd, for better or worse. 

41 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Poor CCAP41, did you forget your meds this morning? Where did this come from since we were not even talking about the back seat which I admit, I doubt I will fit in.

I think that was a jab at your obsession about having enough back seat space in any vehicle for Shrek and friends.

 

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I want a large back seat because I'm American and American's are large and Cadillac should know that American's are large and we need space and this compact CUV should have adequate rear seat space for everybody because they know Americans. 

American. 

Buying a Cadillac would definitely be unfollowing the crowd, for better or worse. 

Actually. considering the absolute FACT that the Escalade is the go to luxury SUV, and the XT5 is I believe the #2 selling mid-size Luxury CUV.. despite the rhetoric that some try and kick.. Cadillac is really not bad off at all in CUV/SUV sales. Introducing the more up to date, until 2020, XT4 to tack ANOTHER demo.. because size matters.. was ALWAYS a no-brainer, and road to higher brand sales. Furthermore.. its not like Cadillac doesn't have the alternative sizes. If the XT4 is too small for these fat ass Americans U speak of.. then LO AND BEHOLD.. there is an XT5 or Escalade.. or upcoming XT6? So if your tall ass needs a larger back seat than the XT4, and EVERYONE of its competitors can offer your huge ass.. buy the larger fuckin vehicle sitting on the lot. I have yet to hear this lunacy over at Buick, GMC, or Chevy happening when some one is trying to buy a sized product. No sales man worth a grain a shit has a customer come in.. get into a Terrain.. say they need something larger.. and he doesn't show them the TWO.. count 'em two Acadias or a Yukon

19 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Actually. considering the absolute FACT that the Escalade is the go to luxury SUV, and the XT5 is I believe the #2 selling mid-size Luxury CUV.. despite the rhetoric that some try and kick.. Cadillac is really not bad off at all in CUV/SUV sales. Introducing the more up to date, until 2020, XT4 to tack ANOTHER demo.. because size matters.. was ALWAYS a no-brainer, and road to higher brand sales. Furthermore.. its not like Cadillac doesn't have the alternative sizes. If the XT4 is too small for these fat ass Americans U speak of.. then LO AND BEHOLD.. there is an XT5 or Escalade.. or upcoming XT6? So if your tall ass needs a larger back seat than the XT4, and EVERYONE of its competitors can offer your huge ass.. buy the larger f@#kin vehicle sitting on the lot. I have yet to hear this lunacy over at Buick, GMC, or Chevy happening when some one is trying to buy a sized product. No sales man worth a grain a $h! has a customer come in.. get into a Terrain.. say they need something larger.. and he doesn't show them the TWO.. count 'em two Acadias or a Yukon

*whisper voice* I was making fun of dfelt because no matter the vehicle he complains and it surprised the back seats are large enough as if a compact vehicle was purchased it that *whisper voice*

28 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I think that was a jab at your obsession about having enough back seat space in any vehicle for Shrek and friends.

 

Nailed it ?

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

*whisper voice* I was making fun of dfelt because no matter the vehicle he complains and is surprised the back seats aren't large enough as if a compact vehicle was purchased for that *whisper voice*

Dang, a couple typos. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Does it matter why I want a large back seat? 

Yes... aren't you like 5'5"? could probably lay you sideways.... but maybe that's the point? ?

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes... aren't you like 5'5"? could probably lay you sideways.... but maybe that's the point? ?

5' 8", THANK YOU VERY MUCH! 

But I'm always concerned my taller friends and family have 17 spare inches of rear leg and hear room. 

26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

5' 8", THANK YOU VERY MUCH! 

But I'm always concerned my taller friends and family have 17 spare inches of rear leg and hear room. 

I can HEAR ? you just fine. I personally like more Head Room. 

10 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

 

Buying a Cadillac is definitely UNfollowing the crowd.  Two crowds really: German and Lexus.

21 hours ago, ccap41 said:

*whisper voice* I was making fun of dfelt because no matter the vehicle he complains and it surprised the back seats are large enough as if a compact vehicle was purchased it that *whisper voice*

 

Noted.. I am absent these days far too often to know everyone's quirks like I did at MT and GMI.

I will say that U.. U.. I remember making a similar argument about the backseat space in an ATS tho.. When the CTS sat on the lot right next to it. U did the same thing with the Malibu pre-redo with the Impala and SS sitting right on the lot too.

Lexus RX + LX sales = 83,298

Cadillac XT5 + Escalade sales =74,282

Mercedes  GLE + GLS =49, 022

Cadillac adding a GX competitor (XT6) and a NX Competitor (XT4) will most likely see them doubles sales of CUVs, equaling that of Lexus.. confirming what I've been saying all along.. U can't win a sales race with not enough product. Cadillac should MIRROR Chevy in terms of available configs IMO, just as a luxury brand, and except the pick-ups. Still bewilders me who Chevy has an EV, a Plug-In, two convertibles, two coupes, and Caddy has no EV, one Plug-in, no converts and one coupe.

54 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Noted.. I am absent these days far too often to know everyone's quirks like I did at MT and GMI.

I will say that U.. U.. I remember making a similar argument about the backseat space in an ATS tho.. When the CTS sat on the lot right next to it. U did the same thing with the Malibu pre-redo with the Impala and SS sitting right on the lot too.

My head touched the roof line in the ATS and I'm 5'8"...

I don't recall anything about the Malibu's rear seats as I haven't been in one. The auto mags were the ones ragging on the back seat of the Malibu. 

The XT4 is a little vehicle inside.... cozy is the best word for it.  It is not a family truckster. 

 Cadillac just posted this and they talk about class leading rear leg room. 

 

I'm sure it's class leading over the GLA and X2. It's still too small for you. 

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The XT4 is a little vehicle inside.... cozy is the best word for it.  It is not a family truckster. 

Which is a fine for the target demo of upscale professional young females.   They don't have a herd of offspring to haul around. 

19 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm sure it's class leading over the GLA and X2. It's still too small for you. 

Totally agree with you! I know this is not for me, but still excited to see it in person on the lot. This is a young professional womens CUV.

12 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Which is a fine for the target demo of upscale professional young females.   They don't have a herd of offspring to haul around. 

Agree, that is how I see it too.

The XT4 is a young professional women's CUV.  OK, explain the Buick Encore then.

8 hours ago, riviera74 said:

The XT4 is a young professional women's CUV.  OK, explain the Buick Encore then.

Same thing for people who aren't as affluent.

Those young female professionals want a BMW.  

And interior space won't really have any bearing on how well the XT4 sells because there are tons of small vehicles that sell, the Kia Soul is small, they sell bunches of those, Hyundai Kona is a foot and a half shorter than an XT4, Mazda CX-3 is a foot shorter and they sell those.  Audi Q3 is smaller and they have a Q1 in other markets.  Encore as mentioned has sold well and is much smaller than XT4.  I'd almost be shocked if Cadillac doesn't make an XT3 in the future.  

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Those young female professionals want a BMW.  

Maybe in your small circle of the world, BMW is falling out of favor fast on the west coast with young female professionals. Many have traded their BMW in for a wide variety of other vendors CUVs. The young are more in tune with their life style than a supposed status symbol. It will be very interesting to see the actual buyers of the XT4.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Maybe in your small circle of the world, BMW is falling out of favor fast on the west coast with young female professionals. Many have traded their BMW in for a wide variety of other vendors CUVs. The young are more in tune with their life style than a supposed status symbol. It will be very interesting to see the actual buyers of the XT4.

And yet BMW X3 sales are up 30% this year, X1 is up 6% and the X2 as a new entrant has added 11,000 more units.  They have gone from about 53,000 units to 75,000 units from last year to this year for the first 3 quarters.  It would seem demand is quite high for the smaller BMW SUVs. 

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And yet BMW X3 sales are up 30% this year...

A rising tide raises all boats. X3 is in the same price class as the XT5, which is outselling it handily this year.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

A rising tide raises all boats. X3 is in the same price class as the XT5, which is outselling it handily this year.

As it should, XT5 is a much nicer vehicle. 

XT5 has no inner showroom competition.  The X3 is up with the X2 being added.  I think XT5 sales will drop when XT4 is added.  If the XT5 is really strong then sales should rise even with XT4 selling a few thousand units a month and then XT6 later being added to that.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The X3 is up with the X2 being added.

But the X5 is down, and 53%. BMW's SUV customers are continually shifting downmarket, toward the bottom of their catalog. X7 is going to sell like the X6, in other words; a few dozen.
 

Quote

If the XT5 is really strong...

What do you mean by 'if'?

Edited October 28, 20187 yr by balthazar

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

But the X5 is down, and 53%. BMW's SUV customers are continually shifting downmarket, toward the bottom of their catalog. X7 is going to sell like the X6, in other words; a few dozen.
 

What do you mean by 'if'?

BMW is IMHO resting on thier laurels. Cadillac is pushing ahead with new designs and trying things.

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

But the X5 is down, and 53%. BMW's SUV customers are continually shifting downmarket, toward the bottom of their catalog. X7 is going to sell like the X6, in other words; a few dozen.
 

What do you mean by 'if'?

The X5 (2019 model base price $61k) is a price level above the XT5, so with XT4 and XT5 competing vs X2 and X3, what % of Cadillac SUV is the lower end of their line up?  The same holds true for all these luxury brands.  Also remember this is the final year of the current generation X5 and they are probably winding production down on those, there is a new generation X5 for 2019.

In 2002, 100% of BMW SUV sales were the X5 (cause that's all there was). And even tho it still is the biggest selling BMW SUV, by the close of this year that share will be around 35%; everything that's come out since the X5 has been downmarket: X3, X1, X2 (and the X4 & X6, but 'BMW doesn't sell any'). The FWD X1 and X2 were mistakes, even if they sell nearly as many of those together as the X5 usually sells. Of course, the X4 & X6 are flops that should be dropped, and the money could have gone into the next X5 to boost it's appeal. That's the moneymaker.

Right now, Cadillac is the XT4, XT5 and Escalade. Hopefully clear heads will prevail and there'll be NOTHING below the XT4. XT6 is coming up next too, if I'm not mistaken.

I hope that NOTHING below XT4 is built, they DO NOT need to play in that market, let Buick and Chevrolet play there. It will not help only hurt Cadillac and GM.

5 hours ago, dfelt said:

I hope that NOTHING below XT4 is built, they DO NOT need to play in that market, let Buick and Chevrolet play there. It will not help only hurt Cadillac and GM.

Just an Enclave-sized XT6 is all Cadillac needs for their crossover lineup to be complete.  No need to be all things to all people like Chevy (or MB) are supposed to be.

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

Just an Enclave-sized XT6 is all Cadillac needs for their crossover lineup to be complete.  No need to be all things to all people like Chevy (or MB) are supposed to be.

Only have one request of Cadillac

• Escalade V Series
• XT6 V Series
• XT5 V Series
• XT4 V Series

That would then make their CUV/SUV lineup complete.

 

I don't think they will do a "real" V in any of the front drive-based vehicles but I could see them doing V-Sport versions of all of them, like the XTS.

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think they will do a "real" V in any of the front drive-based vehicles but I could see them doing V-Sport versions of all of them, like the XTS.

True, a V Sport for FWD, I was think true V for AWD only model. The TTV6 in an AWD XT would be awesome!

I'm just not sure if they want the investment for a vert stout AWD system and the work to eliminate torque steer. There likely isn't enough market for such vehicles. I think a V-Sport would be plenty as they'd still be in the 300-400hp range, depending on the model. 

Of course a true V for the 'Slade would likely be easier and should have been done years ago. I guess their biggest problem is in order to make a true V series they likely want them to handle accordingly and it's probably near impossible to get an Escalade to dance the way the engineers would like. 

On 10/26/2018 at 9:59 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

The XT4 is a little vehicle inside.... cozy is the best word for it.  It is not a family truckster. 

the cabin width is not bad though.  elbow room, etc.  the rear seat leg room is a bit less than i expected based on the hype and pictures, but it's not egregious considering the seating is upright.  Lack of rear seat recline is a bit egregious IMO.

Definitely a wider cabin than the Encore!

The beauty about the XT4 is that IMO it may generate showroom traffic such that it will actually get people in and then the sales folks can switch the buyer to an XT5 if room if the stumbling block.  

Edited October 29, 20187 yr by regfootball

Cadillac VIP #XT4, say more details are coming tomorrow Tuesday Oct 30th, I wonder what it could be? ?

 

On 10/28/2018 at 2:18 PM, balthazar said:

In 2002, 100% of BMW SUV sales were the X5 (cause that's all there was). And even tho it still is the biggest selling BMW SUV, by the close of this year that share will be around 35%; everything that's come out since the X5 has been downmarket: X3, X1, X2 (and the X4 & X6, but 'BMW doesn't sell any'). The FWD X1 and X2 were mistakes, even if they sell nearly as many of those together as the X5 usually sells. Of course, the X4 & X6 are flops that should be dropped, and the money could have gone into the next X5 to boost it's appeal. That's the moneymaker.

Right now, Cadillac is the XT4, XT5 and Escalade. Hopefully clear heads will prevail and there'll be NOTHING below the XT4. XT6 is coming up next too, if I'm not mistaken.

The XT5 is priced like an X3 and the XT4 is priced like an X2 so Cadillac has gone right into that same area that BMW has gone.  Even the XT6 could cost less than the X5, I don't know how Cadillac will price an Enclave rebadge at $60-100k.    The Audi Q7 starts at $49,900, I see Cadillac making that their target for the XT6.  

Cadillac's job is to make profit, so you have to go where the money is.  I would rather see Cadillac go up the ladder rather than below the XT4, but I would also rather see the XT6 built on Omega platform with a 550 hp 4.2 liter TT V8 and 10 speed automatic.  I'd like to see XT5 move to the CT5 platform with the same engine and the 3.0TT V6 with 400 hp as a midrange option but I know none of that will happen. And if Cadillac doesn't want to go up, they have to find the volume going down.

21 hours ago, dfelt said:

Only have one request of Cadillac

• Escalade V Series
• XT6 V Series
• XT5 V Series
• XT4 V Series

That would then make their CUV/SUV lineup complete.

 

Correct but they won't do any of that because 3 of those vehicles are on the wrong platform, and they haven't done an Escalade V-series yet, so I don't see them doing it now.  Even though the Escalade is an overweight truck, I would make a V-series version of it anyway.  There is an AMG G-wagen which makes no sense and people buy it, so why not put a CTS-V engine in an Escalade and sell it for $175k.  They'll find 1,000 people a year to buy it and that has to be like a $50k profit kind of car.

8 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I'm just not sure if they want the investment for a vert stout AWD system and the work to eliminate torque steer. There likely isn't enough market for such vehicles. I think a V-Sport would be plenty as they'd still be in the 300-400hp range, depending on the model. 

Of course a true V for the 'Slade would likely be easier and should have been done years ago. I guess their biggest problem is in order to make a true V series they likely want them to handle accordingly and it's probably near impossible to get an Escalade to dance the way the engineers would like. 

But who cares if it can't handle at all.  No Escalade driver is going to a track or even doing spirited driving on a back road, much like they aren't going off road.  Drop a big supercharged V8 in there and it will go fast in a straight line and horsepower and exclusivity equals bragging rights.  That is all they need to sell enough of them with a big sticker to make profit.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But who cares if it can't handle at all.  No Escalade driver is going to a track or even doing spirited driving on a back road, much like they aren't going off road.  Drop a big supercharged V8 in there and it will go fast in a straight line and horsepower and exclusivity equals bragging rights.  That is all they need to sell enough of them with a big sticker to make profit.

That sounds like an Escalade that would retail for at least $125K.  Cadillac should just do it.

10 hours ago, riviera74 said:

That sounds like an Escalade that would retail for at least $125K.  Cadillac should just do it.

Agreed, an Escalade ESV Platinum fully loaded tops out at $99,845 per my recent build or just a few bills over $100K if you go with one of the two premium paint jobs.

This would make it easy to have a V edition of a Platinum ESV that is around $125K. If they ever decided to offer interior customization in leather, wood and other trim pieces you could push it close to $150K.

There is definitely  a small performance luxury SUV niche out there, with the Cayenne Turbo, Bentayga, Urus, GL63 AMG all over $100k and over 500hp.   An Escalade V series could be a larger, more spacious but less handling-oriented alternative. 

Edited October 30, 20187 yr by Robert Hall

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But who cares if it can't handle at all.  No Escalade driver is going to a track or even doing spirited driving on a back road, much like they aren't going off road.  Drop a big supercharged V8 in there and it will go fast in a straight line and horsepower and exclusivity equals bragging rights.  That is all they need to sell enough of them with a big sticker to make profit.

Because that's the spirit of the V Series. Same reason Ford didn't want to slap ST badges on their Sport models. 

You can't just throw monster power at something and call it an AMG, M, RS, or V. 

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Because that's the spirit of the V Series. Same reason Ford didn't want to slap ST badges on their Sport models. 

You can't just throw monster power at something and call it an AMG, M, RS, or V. 

True, but Cadillac would need a new unibody RWD/AWD SUV platform if they were going to take on the GL, Cayenne, etc with a handling-oriented performance SUV.. 

Edited October 30, 20187 yr by Robert Hall

9 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

True, but Cadillac would need a new unibody RWD/AWD SUV platform if they were going to take on the GL, Cayenne, etc with a handling-oriented performance SUV.. 

Oh I know. I'm just saying they probably don't want to slap the V Series title to something and not have it a true V Series. 

10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

True, but Cadillac would need a new unibody RWD/AWD SUV platform if they were going to take on the GL, Cayenne, etc with a handling-oriented performance SUV.. 

What would that do to their sales volume though (RWD/AWD Cadillac chassis, higher prices than the Chevy platforms they use now?)

4 minutes ago, frogger said:

What would that do to their sales volume though (RWD/AWD Cadillac chassis, higher prices than the Chevy platforms they use now?)

Unknown..just talking hypotheticals..it's not going to happen, but more a what if. 

Their volume could stay the exact same with the extra 25-50k, they'd still be making more cash.