Damn if it's not a good looking car.  In the flesh.  Sort of an Alfa Romeo / Infinity cross up, but they did a nice job with it (at 43k with LOTS of stuff on it).

Interior was locked but to be honest the inside of it looked surprisingly good as well.  Lots of surface development and good basic layout.  Strangely, the rear seat bottom is very deep, so there will be more leg room back there than meets the eye.  There is some Korea faux German finishes and switchgear in there you can detect through the glass, but still, why is this a nicer interior than in most Cadillacs?

Knowing that anyone with a beating heart and chromosomes can get credit on a Hyundai, they well sell many of them.  In fact, sales dude told me first 12 they got were gone within the month.  And yet Cadillacs can often sit for 12-24 months on the lot sometimes.

I tend to think Motor Trend got a lot of ad revenue for naming this car, car of the year.  MT and C/D seem to be pushing a lot of positive Hyundai and Kia articles lately.  But also at face value, this car as it is has a nice account for itself in the showroom.  I think it shows nicer than a Lexus or Infinity and seems like it could sit in the company of a German car too.

Hyundai evidently can build and market an entry luxe car and people are lining up for one.  Should be telling to see if the new Cadillac CT5 is a market dud when that comes out.

Will be hard to find one of these G70's for a test drive for awhile I am afraid.....

Edited December 27, 20187 yr by regfootball

"Market dud"?? Genesis sold just 372 vehicles total (3 different models) in October this year.

Their issue, I believe, starts with the fact that the cars just don't look expensive in person, plus there's the baggage of being a hyundai on top of that. It has no proprietary design. Just looked at the B&P for the g70. The base car really doesn't give you anything; you basically have to go with the 'elite', which bumps the car to $41K. And the color pallet is utterly bland; only a black interior is available with no contrasting colors.
The rebranded lined came out 10 years ago now- they're just not moving the needle. And that doesn't necessarily mean the cars are bad (I don't know either way), but they're unilaterally unwanted.

If it's 'hard to find a test driver' it's more likely hyundai just doesn't bother to build many.

Edited December 27, 20187 yr by balthazar

^^^ Plus.. they look like the design reviews that Infiniti and Audi threw out in the garbage and a Hyundai Styling Thief.. (that is a real job at Hyundai) dumpster dove and retrieved. 

And yeah.. what is going on? There sales, thru Nov, are literally down 50% for '18 from '17. The ATS, CTS, and CT6 (thru Oct) all sold a total of almost 3X what the three vehicles ate Genesis did and GM is thinking about axing the 6. 

This is a perfect example- I assume this g70 is all new or something. You'll not read a whisper about 'very low/ dangerously poor' sales performance. Because it's not GM.

Problem:  even the G90 looks like a Sonata, except with RWD proportions.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

This is a perfect example- I assume this g70 is all new or something. You'll not read a whisper about 'very low/ dangerously poor' sales performance. Because it's not GM.

I believe it is shared with the Stinger, fwiw. 

Personally, I think all of the new G's look great. 

One advantage this has over the Germans is the upgraded engine is roughly 5-10k less than the upgraded engine/trim than the Germans.

$43,750 vs

BMW340i $48,950

C43: $53,400 

S4: $50,200

ah, i knew this would get some responses.

i will say this, yes it's still a hyundai.  but it's not as fauxly done as the older Genesis.  This new one looks better, so Hyundai is doing a better job on the presentation.  When i said it looks like an Infinity or Alfa Romeo, i should have said it looks like them but actually comes off looking better than both.  And then there is those fringe low volume marques like Jaguar.... some of the parts of their product look polished and well manufactured, and then there are parts of their assembly that can look imprecise.  The assembly fit quality of the G70 looks improved over the other Genesis and the fit quality over looks like it may be quite good.

at 43 grand for an all wheel drive 250hp, with huge moonroof and some other nice bits, come on, even the BMW's look like cheap shit inside.

It's not original design on the outside either, i get that, but nor is it a huge out there mistake.  A BMW 3 series can look like an econocar when specced at a certain price.  And if that is the case, this Genesis may look better in comparison.

Imagine how foolish Cadillac will look if the new CT5 is complete trash, particularly the interior.  If the Hyundai looks better than the Cadillac then really Cadillac may be on life support.

Edited December 27, 20187 yr by regfootball

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE????

Edited December 27, 20187 yr by regfootball

^^ I actually like the G70 the best of those 4. For a new vehicle though, the infotainment system is oddly out of date.

where are the FINS??? BLADES?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 20187 yr by regfootball

Don't forget the IS with it's fearsome predator grille.

Or the A4 and C-class.

Edited December 27, 20187 yr by Robert Hall

4 hours ago, regfootball said:

Imagine how foolish Cadillac will look if the new CT5 is complete trash, particularly the interior.  If the Hyundai looks better than the Cadillac then really Cadillac may be on life support.

This is a fantasy scenario. What recent Cadillac had a "complete trash interior"??

it seems you have to get a platinum or V series to get something with better materials (ie anything you'd consider luxury).  Cadillac has never really done great detailing or super precise assembly and gap quality.  But in particular, base and lower trim Cadillacs don't really have anything greatly exceeding low and mid level brands as far as leather and plastics quality, etc.

one example is the plastic seatbacks on the CT6.  that's not even hyundai quality and they trim their interiors with lots of that stuff.

the bar keeps increasing on interiors, interiors has never been anything Cadillac has beaten the competition in, and they seem to be losing ground to more and more competitors

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by regfootball

20 hours ago, balthazar said:

"Market dud"?? Genesis sold just 372 vehicles total (3 different models) in October this year.

Their issue, I believe, starts with the fact that the cars just don't look expensive in person, plus there's the baggage of being a hyundai on top of that. It has no proprietary design. Just looked at the B&P for the g70. The base car really doesn't give you anything; you basically have to go with the 'elite', which bumps the car to $41K. And the color pallet is utterly bland; only a black interior is available with no contrasting colors.
The rebranded lined came out 10 years ago now- they're just not moving the needle. And that doesn't necessarily mean the cars are bad (I don't know either way), but they're unilaterally unwanted.

If it's 'hard to find a test driver' it's more likely hyundai just doesn't bother to build many.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/12/genesis-the-brand-that-barely-exists-in-sales-slow-ascent/

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/07/genesis-hits-the-partial-reset-button-as-it-awaits-2019-models/

this explains some of what is going on.  

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by regfootball

That Cadillac pic is just a rendering...

 

The Alfa Romeo beats all of them in one category though.  I do not know how reliable it may be, but Id buy the Guilia Quadrifoglio over the others JUST for the sounds it makes. 

I do think the Infinity has the nicest looks and silhouettes of all of them. 

 

(Didnt Infinity name their cars "G"...before Johan took over?)

(And now "G" belongs to Genesis?)

(What a strange automotive world we live in today!!!)  

 

^ And before that it belonged to Pontiac.

28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ And before that it belonged to Pontiac.

True!

I also just realized that the Alfa Romeo is the only one with a real name.  And I also just realized that Alpha Romeo is rich in historic....alphanumerics. Like every brand mentioned here...with the exception of...CADILLAC. 

Whatever that means. I aint implying anything. Other than...

For Pete's sake Cadiilac, go back to actual names already!!!

 

Get the outside of the XE, the engine out of the BMW, the interior of the C Class, the tech of the Audi, the sound of the Alfa, the driving dynamics and edge of the Cadillac, the reliability of the Lexus, the spaciousness of the Infiniti and the price of the Hyundai.

I want that car.

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ And before that it belonged to Pontiac.

yes, Pontiac had its own G 3 series.  EXCITEMENT

I don't think I've ever seen the Jaguar XE...pretty obscure.   Of the current compact luxury sedans, I do like the styling of the Alfa---I like the traditional vertical Alfa shield grille shape and the offside license plate.  I like the looks of the Infiniti also.   If were leasing one of these as a daily driver, I'm not sure which one I'd go for..have to test drive a few, they all have their competencies.   The German 3 seem the most popular around here, especially Audis.  I see lots of Audis. 

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by Robert Hall

8 hours ago, regfootball said:

yes, Pontiac had its own G 3 series.  EXCITEMENT

Yes; because every auto brand has always hit home runs except GM, correct?
I haven't seen a G3 in a long time, but I do still see GTOs & G8s, and they are always pristine.
I think this qualifies nicely as 'excitement' (something hyundai has never achieved) ~

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by balthazar

9 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

Get the outside of the XE, the engine out of the BMW, the interior of the C Class, the tech of the Audi, the sound of the Alfa, the driving dynamics and edge of the Cadillac, the reliability of the Lexus, the spaciousness of the Infiniti and the price of the Hyundai.

I want that car.

The only thing I would change is the sound of the C63 because V8. Otherqwise, perfect! 

..I see more G5's and G6's than GTO's or G8's.. ?

Whoa!  Maybe T-bar shifters are gonna become cool again!!!  Admittedly GM always took a rap from the buff books for them

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by regfootball

20 hours ago, regfootball said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE????

Awesome comparison.. and why I'm a Caddy fan. Its unmistakable every time.. and something that Cadillac really needs to exploit again. They did so earlier on when the STS came out in 2005.. but just won't do more to show that buying into Cadillac's A&S styling is a clear cut example of being different than the status quo trying to be 3Series knock-offs. I'd say Cadillac and Benz are the only ones that really stand out.. While Lexus tries to be different it still has that look.. and certainly Audi does as well.

The reality is that every one of those cars above can easily be mistaken for a damn 3Series if U catch them at a glance.. especially the XE and Alfa if U see them in side profile. The Infiniti and Hyundai are almost identical unless U go over the details. Its like I said before.. and over the last 20 years since Hyundai started producing vehicles that look half-way decent to look at.. they STEAL thrown out design exercises from Infiniti.. and now they have started to incorporate some of Audi in their mix. The Infiniti G37 and the first Genesis Coupe looked like damn near the same car. There were obvious differences when they were side by side, but on their own they were as closely related in looks as a Sierra and Silverado.  

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

This is a fantasy scenario. What recent Cadillac had a "complete trash interior"??

None. The ATS was the closest to having issues with the interior, and in truth that was confined to the Instrument cluster being rather basic. I mean it when I say.. the ironic part was that the Camaro upon being put on Alpha.. had a more advanced looking cluster. It really did. I really don't get why Cadillac doesn't follow one basic formula.. "BE BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER GM BRAND."

They have done stuff in the last 15 years that has bewildered even me.

I remember having my '05 STS and thinking.. "why does my wife's Saab 93 have HID lights and I still have Halogen Bulbs? "

I remember thinking.. "Why does the XLR have a 320HP NS and 443HP NS while the Corvette has a 436HP LS3 and a 500HP LS7 and then a 630HP LS9.?? Why can't Cadillac see that this makes no sense and will be ridiculed by the media..  and its not an issue considering the CTS-V has the OHV option, not to mention the mighty Escalade? 

I remember recently thinking "why do they not transfer all of the luxury in the departed ELR to the ATS?" The ELR had the most luxo interior of any Cadillac IMO from 2013-2016. It also begged the question as to "WHY THE FUKK.. did Cadillac not keep it's styling and transfer it to the ATS Coupe? The writing was on the wall of the ELR being killed in 2015.. the ATS-Coupe arrived in 2015. hmmmm.. let's NOT WASTE a BRILLIANT DESIGN. 

I remember think also.. "Why does the ATS-V have no LT1 option? The platform obviously takes it.. and even if U are trying to be similar in offerings to the M3, why not have one extra option to allow for an extra reason why the consumer should go for the American option? A 464HP 445 ft-lbs TTV6? YES!!! But how about an optional 460 Hp 465 ft-lbs of torque. Similar... but the "V8" might make all the difference in the world at time of consideration for some.

Then the other one comes down to one thing. The CT6. Cadillac, I think, deliberately wanted this vehicle to be looked down upon. $53K starting price? On a vehicle that easily ATPs at $70K according to my dealer, as they have not sold one.. NOT ONE.. 2.0L RWD model since they started selling them. They tell me not even the other closest dealer has sold one either. My dealer has told me that they sell more Premium Lux 3.6L and 3.0LTT than anything else.. Platinums is second.. and of all the models U can only get black or silver as a no charge option. (The CTS, BTW still has an ATP of $58K, almost $15K above base price) Either way.. when then the first complaint came about the bottom of the lower model's doors shot in, about them being too plasticky.. why not change them? My CTS's doors are soft leather all the way down to the edge

I always wanted to like the XE, but damn it's horrible electrical issues and horrific reliability.

 

 

On 12/27/2018 at 7:43 PM, regfootball said:

one example is the plastic seatbacks on the CT6.  that's not even hyundai quality and they trim their interiors with lots of that stuff.

What's this material ????

it looks like its probably better than this recycled garbage can black shiny plastic with 5 cent vinyl pouch

 

the seats on the CT6 are stitched nice.  give em credit for that.  Can't find nice seat finish on many ATS and CTS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 20187 yr by regfootball

these seats look sweet

 

 

 

these not so much is it vinyl or leather wow can they even do some stitching maybe?

 

 

 

will that glossy black plastic be what ends up in the CT5???

 

 

Edited December 29, 20187 yr by regfootball

I had a hunch when the complaint was 'plastic seat backs' that the Genesis ALSO had plastic seats backs.

Gee; how'd I know?

I think the issue is really the price premium. Cadillac can't seem to make any correct play because of short-terminism. 

 

Like look at Lexus. They had the great intro of the Lexus LS. And the new model has basically botched it by trying to be something the Lexus LS never was. 

 

You could say that large luxo sedans aren't Cadillacs thing but they sell plenty of XTS. Okay maybe the people buying them will die with them, but nothing kills consumer enthusiasm than a make announcing a new model and then saying they're gonna cancel it a couple months later. 

This gives value priced Genesis a chance to enter with zero expectations of living up to a brand ideal that used to exist.

Cadillac and Lincoln used to dominate. Now they don't. 1 token 4 year lifecycle almost there sedan that we never really wanted to build anyways isn't gonna go anywhere but down once you go out in public and say I'm gonna kill it.

Id like to add:

1. Cadillac chasing BMW was NOT a good idea.  At first it was. In the 1990s. But they went about the chasing the wrong way. The FWD STS and Eldorado were good cars. Wrong wheel drive though. In those days, RWD was a must. Torque steer was not.  

2. Cadillac saw that FWD was a losing battle so they tried the Cadillac that zigs angle.  Right idea, shytty execution. The Opel Omega that would later become the Pontiac GTO should give you an idea how bad of an idea the Opel Omega was.  It was clear as water that the Opel Omega was better suited as a Pontiac than a Cadillac.  Which leads us to much bigger problem that seems to be repetitive for Cadillac the last 30 years or so

3. Shytty executions that have impacted the North American psyche about Cadillac's relevance in the luxury world and how the general public view Cadillac...

a. Cimarron

 b. Allante

c. Catera

d. XLR

e. ELR

f. RWD STS 

g. canceling of STS to CTS and introduction to ATS

h. CT6

From a to h. All those models coulda, shoulda been game changers.  Cadillac drop the ball big time on them.  Always some sort of lethal (in terms of potential customer acceptance of them)  miscalculation.  Each of them had a  bad judgement call that was unique to only that model. But it was such a bad judgement call that forced the cancellation of that model after a short production run.  (This is what Suave was saying) 

4. Never having the right product at the right time, always chasing the trends and never in the forefront of change.  

5. Still chasing BMW when that ship has sailed. Even BMW stopped being BMW a decade ago. Sure BMW has some "M" models that evoke some sort of ultimate driving experience, but that ship has ultimately sailed. That could be because BMW has also dropped the ball. Be as it may, a FWD Seville Touring Sedan and Eldorado could really be what Cadillac needs to sell more sedans and let us not forget a land yacht CT6 named Deville or Fleetwood... It seems that Cadillac is not realizing that their #1 seller, and actual current icon the world is salivating on, the Escalade, is exactly what the Fleetwood and other Cadillac land yachts were all about, hence why a FWD Seville Touring Sedan with real Cadillac luxury, not Cimarron luxury, could be their ticket to success...WITH A REAL NAME!!!

People KNOW what an Escalade is and people KNOW ITS A CADILLAC! 

Supposedly, that is what alphanumerics are for. For BRAND recognition rather than specific model admiration. The brand being exposed and revered more than the model itself. Yet the Escalade, with a REAL name does both...GO FIGURE!!!

 

#5 is more of an incoherent rant, but there is some truth in there somewhere too...

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by oldshurst442

Thanks olds... Back to what Hyundai is doing right with Genesis.

They are immediately doing the luxury bit of having seperate dealers, and the amenities of proper loaners and service being part of Genesis brand only. And they are doing what Hyundai does for mainstream cars - packing features at a lower price point. I'd almost say the Genesis is overpriced since it has no heritage but dammit, I expect a Hyundai using Hyundai tech with a mee-to badge will be more reliable than anything from Germany.

Cadillac here did not have to do either. Almost all of us agree that the LWB ATS would have done better here. Even the young folk who deride Cadillac but secretly drive a CRV or Hyundai..or worse... don't drive...expect a Cadillac to be the old Cadillac while demanding a German car equivalent.

And they want a Tesla only...heavens no never step into a Cadillac dealer... no comrade... no competition... we have commune... we hev tech, you hev car...car hev iPad - I give u money ... U give me Model 3.

SILLY NONSENSE. 

checked one out again today, sat in it,

first off, the exterior doesn't generate heat for me.  It's 'ok' and i am sure it will appeal to some.  But the rest in this class have a new competitor, but i doubt they are scared.

interior, it's tight inside (like alot in this class).  Interior dash and other soft materials are not too bad.  The switchgear is sort of the cheap parts of the interior.  The scooped seat was good and the leather not too bad.

I would for sure prefer a Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Alfa Romeo, Cadillac to it.  I'm cold on this thing.  Not sure how it it is Motor Trend COTY.  Must have been a big check written for that.  A merc CLA is more interesting to me.  Don't waste your $$$ on this, get a Guilia instead.

Sales guy said 2 manual rear drive ones already sold....big thing in snowy / trafficky MN>

 

Edited April 20, 20196 yr by regfootball

This is most directly targeted at the 3-series.  It's a shot across the bow for BMW.

Hyundai doesn't get it right on the first try, but they're persistent and I bet they'll be a lot closer on the 2nd or 3rd. 

BTW, they drive really well.