A Harvard education is not a guarantee of intelligence OR success. Experience makes for a lot of wisdom. Keep this in mind.

So you've magically learned engineering and Harvard business in your off time?  Wow, you sure are talented.  Maybe this guy really is the one to save GM!!

Oh, wait...that was just the crack talking.

"How can you tell when a salesman's lying?"

"His lips (or in this case fingers) are moving."

It wouldn't and at this point, you have 0 credibility.  You blew it over the last year.

zero, zilch, nada

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How? I correctly predicted the sale of GMAC, the absurdity of GMS and the $10 Billion loss. I called for Wagoner to resign before it was fashionable and introduced a comrehensive plan to increase market share with lowered expense.

Yet, some of you would crucify me at every turn. It's tough being a visionary.

Buickman

Edited June 11, 200619 yr by buickman

If you want your credibility back, go sell Toyotas in Flint for a year.

Sorry, don't like Toyota and can't sell something I don't believe in. Remember I came to Flint with $150 as a 24 yr old from NY. I proved my ability already my friend.

Buickman

No, you proved you can sell Buicks to GM employees and their families. Where is the next closest Buick dealership? How many people living in a 35 mile radius of the one you sold at had ties to GM? How many other salespeople workd at the same dealership you did when setting all of your records? All of these are variables you have to take into account when calling someone the best salesman ever or some crap like that.

No, you proved you can sell Buicks to GM employees and their families.  Where is the next closest Buick dealership?  How many people living in a 35 mile radius of the one you sold at had ties to GM?  How many other salespeople workd at the same dealership you did when setting all of your records?  All of these are variables you have to take into account when calling someone the best salesman ever or some crap like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I moved here there were 6 local Buick dealers and hundreds of salesmen. To rise to the top of any one store was an accomplishment, let alone the area, or nation. This during a time when GM was eliminating tens of thiousands of employees and closing factories left and right. It's so easy to be a doubting Thomas, so I'll just leave it to rest that your opinion of my sales ability and record are simply that, your opinion.

Buickman

Edited June 11, 200619 yr by buickman

Sorry, don't like Toyota and can't sell something I don't believe in. Remember I came to Flint with $150 as a 24 yr old from NY. I proved my ability already my friend.

Buickman

Just to clarify, you came from Albion, NY...which is 300 miles away from Flint, MI. NYC for comparison is 400 miles away from Albion.

There's a whole car buying world out there that is very different on the East and West Coasts than it is in the Michigan microcosm...

How? I correctly predicted the sale of GMAC, the absurdity of GMS and the $10 Billion loss. I called for Wagoner to resign before it was fashionable and introduced a comrehensive plan to increase market share with lowered expense.

Yet, some of you would crucify me at every turn. It's tough being a visionary.

Buickman

You are full of yourself and full of crap and here is why:

1) GMAC has been on the table for years. It started with the drop in GMs bond investment status. When was that 2002 - 2003 time frame. Sorry you do not get credit for that.

2) GMS absurd? It was brillant and did what it was supposed to do. Clear the bloated inventories and move the old t-800s and 360s. Too bad Katrina hit bringing on 3.00 gas which destroyed the momentum. I think you are pissed because it took any advantage you might have selling to people with GMS. You did say sales were slightly lower for you.

3) Anybody with a half a brain could have predicted 2006 to be a blood bath. I know I did on here in the fall of 2005. It is not worth a pat on the back though. And you never read the 10K to figure out where and why the money was lost.

4) Your Wagoner rants are absurd and misguided as is your plan. Visionary, no fool.

Edited June 11, 200619 yr by evok

You mean what works in Flint doesn't work in Tuscaloosa, Tacoma or Tucumcarie?

When I moved here there were 6 local Buick dealers and hundreds of salesmen.

How many dealerships are there in the city off Flint today?

You mean what works in Flint doesn't work in Tuscaloosa, Tacoma or Tucumcarie?

Few to none GM employees, retirees etc eligible for GMS in Tuscaloosa, Tacoma or Tucumcarie.

http://www.buick.com/locatedealer/buick/de...ECSDSQKBXMQEIPS

Please note that Patys Lou is in Flint Township, not the city.

How about going into the North end of Flint amongst very high crime, boarded up buildings, overweeded lots, at a dealership which just laid off 4 salesmen, and then leading the US from that location?

How about turning around a dwindling dealership and making it # 1 USA in Buick deliveries?

How about taking another store from 40 out of 50 and bringing it to top ten while improving operations to the point that GM ranked it last year as 2nd out of 171 in total operations?

How about becoming a licensed Michigan Real Estate Broker while raising 7 daughters?

How about creating an industry leading shareholder communication website, GeneralWatch.com after years of attempting to convince management of how their distress merchandising is killing market share and wasting hundreds of millions in marketing expense?

Guess that makes me a simple order taker huh?

Buickman

I went from never selling anything and my first month in consumer electronics sales I led: my store, my region, and had the highest extended warrenty penetration of anyone in the city! Does that mean that I could go to Sony and tell them how to run their company? NO!

If I didn't have a different career path I would still be leading my region in sales. Oh and that was selling EVERYTHING at MSRP or with slight discounts, <6% of MSRP! I had NO employee sales.

How many dealerships are there in the city off Flint today?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are none in the city of Flint, so much for a captive market.

2) GMS absurd? It was brillant and did what it was supposed to do. Clear the bloated inventories and move the old t-800s and 360s. Too bad Katrina hit bringing on 3.00 gas which destroyed the momentum. I think you are pissed because it took any advantage you might have selling to people with GMS. You did say sales were slightly lower for you.

When the comparable numbers start coming out this year, the negative press will be a bombardment causing disgrace, embarrassment, and a further loss of market share. Unless GM acts to implement Reutrn to Greatness, the market share will dip well into the teens.

Buickman

Edited June 11, 200619 yr by buickman

I went from never selling anything and my first month in consumer electronics sales I led: my store, my region, and had the highest extended warrenty penetration of anyone in the city!  Does that mean that I could go to Sony and tell them how to run their company?  NO!

If I didn't have a different career path I would still be leading my region in sales.  Oh and that was selling EVERYTHING at MSRP or with slight discounts, <6% of MSRP!  I had NO employee sales.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I admire your success.

Buickman

PS

if Sony were smart, they would seek advice from you, as well as others who have interfaced with, and understand, their retail customers.

Edited June 11, 200619 yr by buickman

2) GMS absurd? It was brillant and did what it was supposed to do. Clear the bloated inventories and move the old t-800s and 360s. Too bad Katrina hit bringing on 3.00 gas which destroyed the momentum. I think you are pissed because it took any advantage you might have selling to people with GMS. You did say sales were slightly lower for you.

When the comparable numbers start coming out this year, the negative press will be a bombardment causing disgrace, embarrassment, and a further loss of market share. Unless GM acts to implement Reutrn to Greatness, the market share will dip well into the teens.

Buickman

There you go again, deflecting the issue. Typical BM MO.

There you go again, deflecting the issue. Typical BM MO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are so right, my apologies sir.

Folks, the point is that G Richard Wagoner was pre-ordained as Chairman. He was a failure in purchasing, accomplished nothing overseas, was a disaster running NA both times and has no business whatsoever running GM other than the old boy's club which placed him there to begin with, and now protects him. Truly, he deserves to be arrested for misleading investors, let alone for the damage done across the United States in various local economies.

Buickman

Edited June 12, 200619 yr by buickman

I admire your success.

Buickman

PS

if Sony were smart, they would seek advice from you, as well as others who have interfaced with, and understand, their retail customers.

No they wouldn't. Sony is a global company that supplies products on several different market levels on a massive global scale. My experience was in a high end Sony friendly midwestern large city within an upscale area of the city. That my friend is NOT indicative of 10% of the midwest US market and much less than 1% of the global consumer electronics business that Sony does. That my friend is a matter of perspective, something YOU seem to have down pat, note the sarcasm.

Folks, the point is that G Richard Wagoner was pre-ordained as Chairman.

Perhaps you should read Angels & Demons by Dan Brown, author of the Da Vinci Code it may offer a point of view different than yours. It is centered around the Iluminati who Richard Wagner must be a part of to be pre-ordained as Chairman of one of the largest companies in the world.

You said it brother, not me.

Wagoner is ten times worse than Bernie Ebbers and Kenneth Lay combined. Fraud and corruption are more than prevalent at General Motors, rather it's business as usual. "Red Ink Rick" is the pointman.

Buickman

Wagoner is no Lee Iaccoca or Carlos Ghosn, I'll give you that. However, he must be doing something right, because he hasn't gone anywhere yet, and neither has GM.

And I will have to disagree with you on the argument that Wagoner is worse than Kenneth Lay, Buickman. Every company has its share of corruption, I can not say otherwise. No one can. However, Enron was just created to become corrupt and swindle people out of their retirements. GM was created to make cars. Please don't compare Wagoner and Lay in the future-I take special offense to that.

Heard of Delphi?

Yes, I've heard of Delphi. I think they are the ones you should be directing your frustrations at, sir. They laid off thousands of workers, yet the heads of the company all got raises. IIRC, one is getting paid north of $8million to co-captain a sinking ship.

Heard of Delphi?

BS pure and simple. Wagoner should be credited for what is likely to turn out to be a peacefull labor restructuring with the UAW and DPH.

GM for what it is worth over the past 70 years created the UAW and nourished it. And now they are humanely dismanteling what they made.

You want to know where a big chunk of that 10 billion went last year. It went to the UAW and DPH. GM had a responsibility and they are paying their child support.

Wagoner is attempting to make the most out of a bad situation and giving Gettelfinger some breathing room. For that I give Rick serious credit. Did it cost GM money, yes. Is it the best move, I think time will show it is.

Some might call this hush money to keep peace with labor, but at this time given GM's obligations with the UAW this is the best the can do. It is responsible business.

In the end, GM under Wagoner have done the best they can do given the situation.

They knew it would come to this when they cut it loose.

They knew it would come to this when they cut it loose.

And so your point?

Deception.

Deception.

Or getting a time bomb outside before it goes boom.

Deception.

Deception?

Have you ever read any of DPHs SEC filings starting with the spin off in 1999?

It is in there.

The only deceit is your continued slanderous posts. You are dishonest, deceitful and a fraud. Not to mention a fool.

All:

Last December on GMI, the BM brought up this same point with regard to DPH. I posted back to the BM a link to a 1999 DPH SEC disclosure where DPH stated that their labor and legacy cost in their US operations was an on going concern for continuing operation of the corporation. DPH did not deceive investors as the BM would like people to believe but did lay out the problems the company had even prior to the spinoff and IPO of the stock. Investors that took the time to do their DD were not fooled. DPH IPOed at about $19.00/share, and never reached that high again.

Edited June 12, 200619 yr by evok

Deception.

Decepticons. Criminals in disguise?

Sorry, don't like Toyota and can't sell something I don't believe in. Remember I came to Flint with $150 as a 24 yr old from NY. I proved my ability already my friend.

Buickman

OK then.....

Come to Los Angeles and sell Buicks!

When I moved here there were 6 local Buick dealers and hundreds of salesmen. To rise to the top of any one store was an accomplishment, let alone the area, or nation. This during a time when GM was eliminating tens of thiousands of employees and closing factories left and right. It's so easy to be a doubting Thomas, so I'll just leave it to rest that your opinion of my sales ability and record are simply that, your opinion.

Buickman

Buickman.....you seem to forget that there are those of us on here that spent a considerable amount of time living in the Flint (and Detroit) areas.....and there are those of us on here that KNOW the automobile market in Flint like the back of our hands....

You are not impressing those of us that know the reality of the marketplace up there..

Jeezus....I WORKED for Buick Motor Division for seven years in Flint...!

I just got this news, it was released to stockholders literally 10 minutes ago. Rick Wagoner has been shelved. More to come.

I just got this news, it was released to stockholders literally 10 minutes ago.  Rick Wagoner has been shelved.  More to come.

I am not finding anything on the internet about this! Yet?

I just got this news, it was released to stockholders literally 10 minutes ago.  Rick Wagoner has been shelved.  More to come.

Link for the news, please?

I just got this news, it was released to stockholders literally 10 minutes ago.  Rick Wagoner has been shelved.  More to come.

What meaning for the word "shelved" are you using?

Heh. I'm pretty sure that was a mockery of the OUTLOOK shelving story earlier this year. Not real as far as I know.

Heh. I'm pretty sure that was a mockery of the OUTLOOK shelving story earlier this year. Not real as far as I know.

Here's a HINT....

Look at the name......"Joshiepoo"

Here's a HINT....

Look at the name......"Joshiepoo"

For just a second I did think it was Josh.

Here's a HINT....

Look at the name......"Joshiepoo"

EDIT nr.2: I hadn't noticed that

Edited June 13, 200619 yr by ZL-1

All:

Last December on GMI, the BM brought up this same point with regard to DPH.  I posted back to the BM a link to a 1999 DPH SEC disclosure where DPH stated that their labor and legacy cost in their US operations was an on going concern for continuing operation of the corporation.  DPH did not deceive investors as the BM would like people to believe but did lay out the problems the company had even prior to the spinoff and IPO of the stock.  Investors that took the time to do their DD were not fooled.  DPH IPOed at about $19.00/share, and never reached that high again.

Where is the BM? I think he needs to take account of his lies.

Where is the BM?  I think he needs to take account of his lies.

as amusing as this crap is, I'd much rather he just go away. and more importantly, stay away.

as amusing as this crap is, I'd much rather he just go away.  and more importantly, stay away.

He will if people keep asking questions he cannot answer or presenting data that completey destroys his arguments.

He will if people keep asking questions he cannot answer or presenting data that completey destroys his arguments.

au contraire. (meanign quite the opposite)

he thrives on the attention. only way to get rid of him is to ignore him.

The first time we got rid of him, he was getting a lot of attention and left when Josh kept promising to conduct this big, industry shaking interview then never went through with it. I believe that if people quit condoning the plan, and we get enough people to ask tough questions and analyze his answers for faults, he'll be backed into a corner and run off. Ignoring him hasn't worked yet.

And BM hasn't really posted since evok asked him to explain himself on the Delphi issue.

Please, give him a little credit. There will be a response. BM is currently scouring his dosier for the documents labelled, "FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES", but formerly contents of the "CONSPIRACY THEORY" left-field files.

I relish his topics on this forum. It's like changing the channel from CNN to Comedy Central.

WAKE UP

On a sweltering summer day, an old man went down into a cool cellar for some relief. The moment he entered, he was blinded by the darkness. Don't Worry, said another man in the cellar, it is natural that when you go from light to darkness, you're unable to see. But soon enough, your eyes will grow accustomed to it, and you will hardly notice that it is dark.

My dear friend, replied the old man, turning to leave, that is exactly what I am afraid of. Darkness is darkness, the danger is convincing your self that it is light.

As I said everyone should wake up as each day goes by Wagoner is piling dirt on the exit from the cellar. I.E. everyone is in they dark, they just think it's light.

Buickman

When all else fails, make up a story to divert attention from the question being asked.

Or, go back to bashing Wagoner because the questions got too tough to answer.

It's like riding a merry-go-round.

1. BM bashes Wagoner

2. evok asks questions BM cant answer

3. BM disappears for a few days trying to think of an answer

4.everyone makes fun of BM while he's away

5. BM comes back bashing Wagoner again

6. Repeat steps 1-5

Edited June 13, 200619 yr by CaddyXLR-V