Didn't see this posted anywhere here:

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0...2207975,00.html

It's widely accepted (if little-known) that GM is one of the pack leaders when it comes to hydrogen research. But here Honda is about to pull a Toyota and win huge mindshare by releasing this car. Personally, I think GM should at least have an answer ready to go, if not released around the same timeframe, but I understand the lack of money might be an issue. I just hope somebody at GM is paying attention.

Hydrogen as a fuel is a red herring.

from the article:

It has also developed a home “energy station” that generates hydrogen from natural gas to allow owners to refuel on their own driveway.

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by Oldsmoboi

Hydrogen as a fuel is a red herring.

I don't think it really matters at this point, though. GM lost the bet on hybrids badly, they've already invested a huge amount of money in hydrogen, and if hydrogen is just a really sophisticated bandaid, E85 is a truly lousy one that lets in almost as much dirt as if there were no bandaid at all. If GM can get a return on that money in marketshare or especially mindshare, I think it would go a long way in dissolving some of the ill will a lot of people hold towards them in this country.

My opinion, of course.

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by xdre

It's widely accepted (if little-known) that GM is one of the pack leaders when it comes to hydrogen research.  But here Honda is about to pull a Toyota and win huge mindshare by releasing this car. 

This isn't the first news of Honda's hydrogen cars. It's not like they just jumped onto the bandwagon all of a sudden. They have been developing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for a while now, it just wasn't widely known or at least nobody paid attention.

The FCX model is already on its 3rd revision and in use by select families in the U.S. More information on the FCX here and the Home Energy Station which "provides heat and electricity for the home as well as fuel for a hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle."

Honda first released information for the FCX in 1999, with its original concept car (very ugly). You can read more about it here.

Edited June 19, 200619 yr by siegen

Hydrogen as a fuel is a red herring.

GM, Honda, et al are just doing their part to convert away from fossil fuels. Ten or fifteen years down the line, replace that natrual gas -> hydrogen converter with an electric charge -> hydrogen converter. Hydrogen could be produced using water or the surrounding air by using energy from the power grid, which could very well be supplied by wind, solar, geothermic, and nuclear facilities. Hell, you could buy a hundred hamsters and put them on wheels to power your charging unit.

Would any of this be cheaper than fossil fuels? Probably not. But at some point we're gonna run out of gas. It's important that we devise a solution, even if it's one step at a time.

GM, Honda, et al are just doing their part to convert away from fossil fuels.  Ten or fifteen years down the line, replace that natrual gas -> hydrogen converter with an electric charge -> hydrogen converter.  Hydrogen could be produced using water or the surrounding air by using energy from the power grid, which could very well be supplied by wind, solar, geothermic, and nuclear facilities.  Hell, you could buy a hundred hamsters and put them on wheels to power your charging unit.

Would any of this be cheaper than fossil fuels?  Probably not.  But at some point we're gonna run out of gas.  It's important that we devise a solution, even if it's one step at a time.

What's the advantage of converting clean electricity to hydrogen compared to running on clean electricity alone?

What's the advantage of converting clean electricity to hydrogen compared to running on clean electricity alone?

Good question. There may not be one.

Though if we can get more efficient packaging out of hydrogen fuel cells than out of batteries, then it might make sense to "charge" the fuel cells using whatever means necessary.

This isn't the first news of Honda's hydrogen cars. It's not like they just jumped onto the bandwagon all of a sudden. They have been developing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for a while now, it just wasn't widely known or at least nobody paid attention.

No, and while I meant to be provocative, that wasn't what I meant to imply. I did know about the FCX. My point is that while GM has almost always been at the forefront of research, they have of late rarely led the pack in terms of actually getting the results of that research to the general public--or if they do, it's done so quietly as to be ignored; most people also don't know about GM's hybrid buses.