smk4565

The Impala should be rear drive because GM has 1 rear drive sedan that isn't a Cadillac and for front drive lovers the G6, Aura, Malibu, LaCrosse, Lucerne, 9-3, 9-5, Delta platform (though much smaller) and the Lambdas and theta SUVs are front drive and car based. They have a ton of front drive stuff for people to choose from, and hardly anything rear wheel drive. As far as Buick goes, they are not a luxury brand. Their top end sedan has a base price of $25,500, and almost always has a $2500 rebate (wow a Buick flagship for less than a Camry 4-cylinder). That puts Buick closer to Ford than Lincoln, let alone Lexus. When the cheapest car on a Buick lot is $33,000 and the brand has fewer than 9% fleet sales, they can think about being a luxury brand.

Good point about the GP, that was 78% fleet sale, so the Impala will pick those up. The Impala is 58% fleet sale now, it could easily hit 65% fleet which will make it really undesirable to retail customers regardless of engine, drivetrain, styling, chrome, or anything else. I thought the LaCrosse was supposed to be longer than the Malibu (but shorter than the current LaCrap) but looking at the spy photos the body shape looks nearly identical to the Malibu. Similar to how the LaCrosse and Grand Prix shared side panels and window shape.

Isn't that what the 2009 LaCrosse is? The Impala will be a direct competitor to the LaCrosse in that scenario. Lower price often means not as good. Especially when Toyota's production costs are $2000 less per car than Chevy's. If the Impala is $2000 less than the Avalon, GM is either making $4000 less per vehicle or using lesser materials and features. The Lexus ES has a higher base price than the CTS, if the LaCrosse becomes a direct competitor to the Lexus ES, will GM price a Buick sedan higher than a Cadillac that they claim rivals the 5-series?

I too would like to see direct injection on all GM's engines. There is great potential with the 2.8 liter V6, maybe upping that to 3.0 liters, and using direct injection to get 240 or so hp and 30 mpg highway. The 3.6 in the Malibu is making 252 hp and 26 mpg, I think anyone in the family sedan market would trade 10-15 hp for 4 more mpg. A smaller DI V6 could serve as the base engine in the Impala as well and Buicks. If the new LaCrosse is supposed to be like what the TL and ES350 are to the Accord/Camry, then the Lacrosse would be nicer than the Lucerne, making the Lucerne irrelevant. If the LaCrosse stays cheaper than the $25,000 Lucerne and is just a streched Malibu, what is the point of making an Impala that is a stretched Malibu. Either way seems like there will be big time over lap with the 2 Buicks and the Impala, leading to one of them dying off.

I don't like BMW styling inside or out very much. iDrive is dumb, but their cars steer/drive/handle better than any other sedan. BMW has diesel and hybrid coming summer/fall of 2008. The CS concept will inspire the 5, 6, and 7 series all of which are 2009 or 2010 models. I like the CTS exterior, but the old one had a better interior layout with the angled console, it just had junky materials. My knee hits the center console in the new CTS, and there are a few interior gripes I have about it. I have only owned GM cars, but my favorite car right now is the Jaguar XF. For me it could come down to the XF or a future Cadillac if they have something comparable.

Basically, the BTS needs an interior better than the 08 CTS and similar outside look, but smaller. CTS ($47,000 base) needs an interior like the Jaguar XF, more expensive grille, removal of gray plastic on the outside, and better proportions in the rear, the STS should come back as a $65-80,000 CLS type car, and a ULS/XTS (with V12 option) that can go head on with the S-class. Cadillac also needs diesel power, maybe with a hybrid, so they have some 35+ mpg cars.

The problem is what is Cadillac? Are they a luxury performance brand that is a world leader in technology, and styling, or are they a brand that sells big sedans like the DTS and a rebadged Tahoe. I want them to be the luxury performance brand, that has great styling and technology. But the STS, DTS, XLR, and BLS in Europe all fail at that mission. I want them to be American and I like the styling theme, but I'd like to see them closer to BMW in performance. Lexus sold 56,000 units in Europe in 2007, which is way more than Cadillac and Lexus just started there. Lexus plans to grow to 150,000 per year there. Cadillac is nearly non-existent in Europe because the cars are too big and suck gas, and the interior materials aren't good enough.

Lexus can gamble on a $170,000 Ferrari fighter because Toyota has money to burn. They might only sell 500 LF-A a year but I bet they put it in their ads and brag about its performance and build their image more. It is similar to what the Prius did for Toyota. A money loser that didn't sell in big numbers at first, but it gave Toyota an image stronger than any amount of advertising could produce. That is the difference between GM and Toyota, GM has to play it safe, limit spending, and Toyota can outspend any one and build a $120,000 hybrid sedan or $170,000 sports car on a gamble.

Lexus has bland styling and some vehicles lack performance, especially handing, but they have been the #1 selling luxury brand in the USA for 7 years in a row, and are the fastest growing in Europe. They don't build my style of car, but they are doing something right with their image to get so many people to buy them. Cadillac became a land barge competing with the Town Car by their own doing. They could have changed to be like BMW and Mercedes long ago, but they didn't build what the market was shifting too, they built what the market was. At least they are finally changing. The CTS has a good interior for an entry level car, (though the layout and seats could be better) but the CTS is being pushed as Cadillac's flagship car right now. The real problem is the upper end, there is nothing there. The XLR's interior is worse than the CTS's and the XLR doesn't have the performance and $80,000 car should have. Cadillac isn't a legit threat to BMW or Mercedes (especially globally) yet. I hope they will be, but they have a really long way to go.

Lexus is playing catch up in the performance luxury segment, but they are leading in the hybrid arena and the LS460 has a lot of technology like parking itself and Mark Levinson stereo. Plus Lexus hasn't been around that long, they have grown a ton in 15 years. The Lexus LS-A test mule just ran the Nurburgring in 7 minutes 24 seconds, that is an insane time, 16 seconds faster than the Z06, and faster than the 911 GT3. If the production version is that fast, that will give Lexus some performance credibility they currently lack. I never forgot the STS-V's engine, I was only comparing the Northstar against the BMW 4.8 liter, M-B 5.5 liter and Lexus 4.6 liter since those are their main V8s. The V-series engines should be compared to M and AMG engines. And the 230 hp engine in the 5-series is $44,000, for $60,000 you get a V8. BMW is clearly doing something right, that 5-series outsells the STS by a ton and the 5-series is at the end of its life cycle. Unfortunately, the STS is an irrelevant car in the luxury segment, I don't even think the Germans see it as competition. Which is a shame, because Cadillac has better styling than the imports and a huge corporation behind them, but they can't make a car that performs like a 5-series and has an interior like a Jaguar XF.

That is the problem, "Cadillac has it coming" while the others have been doing it for a couple years. Cadillac is always playing catch up.

What is worse than Cadillac losing the horsepower war is losing the fuel efficiency war. Mercedes offers a 50 state diesel car, and is working on more plus hybrids, BMW is bringing their diesels here soon and hybrids and Lexus has the hybrids. Those brands have "green" image and/or technology image which Cadillac lacks right now. Cadillac also lacks in the upper echelon of cars, and has too many base price of $44,000 or less sedans. BMW and Mercedes cost $8000 more than an STS because they use better wood, better leather, better plastic and have more current technology. The STS is more in a class with the Acura RL. I agree that the 230 hp 5-series is wimpy, but it gets good gas mileage, and in most parts of the world, like Europe, that is important. BMW designs cars to sell everywhere in the world, not just the USA and Canada like Cadillac does. BMWs are usually low in weight and have always had decent acceleration without being the class leader in power. The new 5-series comes out in about a year, the base engine may change. The 407 hp V8 takes over as their main V8, the M5 could be 738 hp with twin turbos if they wanted too, they already work with a tuner to make custom ones like that. Cadillac has the world's biggest (maybe 2nd biggest) auto maker and 105 years of history behind them, there is no reason they shouldn't be on an even field with M-B or BMW. But GM seems too cheap or too afraid to compete.

I think that is what Pontiac should do. They could cover the police, taxi and rental fleet markets with a couple of sedans, and not have to fleet out Chevys, Buicks or Cadillacs. Then resale value of one brand suffers rather than 4. I agree totally with the hybrid and diesel options. Fleet customers like taxi, government, police are going to require higher mileage. That is why the Ford Panther platform is dying and NYC is buying Escape Hybrid taxis.

W-Body and G-Body both have to die, along with the 4-speed automatic and 1990s engines. The Impala drives like it is form 1999, not 2007, which is why they discount them like crazy, while the Accord in 4-cylinder and cloth sells for $23k and after 4 years still sells for $15k. Reputation/image/perception go a long way. Camry and Accord have it, the domestics don't right now.

My mistake, I was thinking of the old Mercedes engine, the 4.3 and 5.0 liter V8s were 3 valve per cylinder, and their V12 is a 36 valve, 3 valve per cylinder.

Isn't that what the upcoming LaCrosse and current Lucerne are? The Lacrosse is longer than a Maxima or Avalon already. It seems that GM is thinking of making the Impala more like the Avalon, so that they can retire Buick if (when) the new products fail. This also justifies Pontiac's existence because the G8 would be more unique, and when they make a Cadillac off Zeta, people won't say it is a dressed up Impala. Chevy will have the Camaro as their Zeta car anyway. Although it wouldn't surprise me if the Impala stays a big front drive barge and costs $23,000 and gets fleet sold to death.

I've driven the LS1 V8, good power, but rough and loud. Mercedes uses a SOHC 3 valve per cylinder V8. Maybe Cadillac should do an I6 engine. I like DOHC V8s the most personally.

I can believe that about the CTS, I've driven the 3.6 liter in the Aura and thought it was whiny and could have sounded better. It was peppy, though. I haven't driven the Lucerne, sitting it in it at the auto show is enough to make me laugh at how bad it is. I have driven the LeSabre, bad engine, bad handling, bad car. STS-Vs are dirt cheap in Pittsburgh, you can get an 06 or 07 STS-V for what a CTS DI costs.

But BMW's non M cars will have 407 hp, 446 lb-ft V8 (555i, 755i, X5, X6). Then they have the M3 with 414 hp, M5/M6 at 500 and going up in 2010 with the new generation, and the 7-series is getting a new V12. for $60,000 in an STS you get 320 hp. You get 382 in M-B, and 360 in 2008 (407 in 2009) for BMW. The XLR for $78,000 gets you an interior worse than the CTS and 320 hp. The Mercedes SL (which I know costs more but you can price high when you've been class leader for 20 years) is 382 horsepower base, 493 midrange, and up to 612 in AMG. I know Cadillac is trying, but they have to do more to compete with those brands. Although I think the real battle will be in gas mileage, not horsepower. If Cadillac wants to be #1 in the US and #3-4 in the world they need 2 cars that get 40 mpg highway. People can't ignore a 40 mpg luxury car when the rest get 26.

Is the market for the Taurus/Sable strong? What about Buick sedans that are down 20% in sales and average buyer age up to 67, and the now defunct Grand Prix. GM got rid of the Bonneville, Aurora, LeSabre, Park Ave because people weren't buying big front drivers. The top selling SUVs (not in order) are Explorer, CR-V, Rav4, Edge, Escape, which except for the Explorer are based on smaller car platforms. The Tahoe is the only big SUV in the top ten in sales, most of the top 10 is Highlander size (Camry size) or smaller. So why would people driving smaller SUVs trade them in on a huge full size car. Most likely they'd get a car between Civic and Camry size.

469 hp on one model, and that isn't their mainstream V8. M-B has 612 hp and 724 lb-ft as their top engine. Cadillac's non V-series cars should have 380 hp and get 19 mpg average. V-series should be in the 500 hp and considered elite cars. I've seen 07 STS-Vs for sale for $46,000, that is $32,000 in depreciation in one year. Cadillacs would hold 90% of value over 1 year if they were a desirable and sought after car. Lexus despite building a bunch of over rated, dressed up Toyotas is #1 in sales in the US, BMW is #2 in US luxury sales and sell over a million cars a year worldwide. Cadillac is #4 in their own country and less than 300,000 units worldwide. If GM managed Cadillac right they could sell over 500,000 units a year, with none of them costing under $35,000.

If the Impala stays similar to it's current size and remains front drive and moves to the $27-34k price range, they would make Buick obsolete. Which to me isn't a bad thing. Buick doesn't even have a sedan now that bases at $27k, Buicks are priced closer to Toyotas or Fords. A front drive Impala does run a risk of being a sales dud like the Azera or 500/Taurus. CAFE is no excuse for not making rear wheel drive. The CTS and Malibu get the same gas mileage, even though the CTS has 52 more hp. So how does rear drive hurt gas mileage? The BMW 535d gets better mileage than an Aveo or Camry Hybrid, while posting a 6.2 second 0-60 time, so again, rear drive doesn't mean bad mileage. If the Impala goes front drive it should be because it fits the product mix with Pontiac/Buick having rear drive, but Pontiac is a rental brand basically, and Buick has one foot in the grave.

The Malibu has the same dimensions as the Camry. The Camry has been #1 selling car in the US for 9 of the last 10 years, the Malibu is exactly the size it should be. Not to mention the Camry sells elsewhere in the world also, not just North America like the Malibu. If the Impala gets larger than it is now, it will be bigger than a Mercedes S600, is that a size car many people buy? The only cars bigger than the Impala under $60,000 are the DTS, Lucerne, Grand Marquis, Town Car (Crown Vic is fleet only now) and all have declining sales. The W-body doesn't use space well, even the Malibu has a longer wheelbase than the Impala. They could even shrink the Impala and gain a ton of interior room on a decent platform.

I talked to some GM rep today at the Cadillac dealer, he said the LS7 was scraped because they felt 505 hp wasn't enough for the CTS-V, and it may be near 600 hp, but GM hasn't said anything official yet. He said don't rule out all wheel drive either, but all that was rumor, he didn't have any official info.

I've driven the 06 Impala, 3800s, LS1s, 3400s. Hardly any manufactures use pushrods in cars, there aren't really that many to sample from, my experience with them is usually in rental cars. Hummer hurts CAFE more than any other product they have. I don't see how a rear drive Impala is impossible with CAFE (rear drive BMW 535d gets 42 mpg highway in Europe), when Hummer fits into their CAFE plans. They simply can't fund 10 brands, while Toyota funds 3 with the same amount of money. Buick has 2 sedans that don't belong in this decade and a 4000 a month selling SUV, whoppee. They sold 900,000 units in one year 20 years ago, they are under 200k a year now, their days are numbered. Pontiac is a fleet sale brand plus the Solstice. I disagree that Cadillac has been funded well. They still use the Northstar while BMW and Mercedes have updated or changed V8s 3-4 times each in the past 15 years. The Northstar was a great engine in the 90s, but they need something new. They still don't have a 3-series competitor, or a real E-class or S-class competitor, and they are too nervous to let go of the 70 year old DTS buyers. Cadillac can't change perception while the DTS or current STS are in production. I want to seem Cadillac as the best car in the world again, but the current plan is too slow and not aggressive enough.