CARBIZ

You guys cannot afford to be the world's cop anymore. Your total debt and current account deficits are unsustainable. As a taxed-to-death-Canadian (we pay until sometime in July before we hit 'tax freedom day'), it seems strange that every election Americans strike DOWN tax hikes (like, who in their right mind is every going to vote FOR a tax hike?), but somebody has to tell you that the cupboards are bare! I have an ugly feeling the fat lady has not sung yet. I know the real estate market around here is hanging by threads; held together only by the myth of globialization and the addition of 350k immigrants per year, most of whom end up in Toronto.

No list would be complete without Micheline Maynard Steve Rattner Kirk Kerkorian Roger Smith Emma Lowenstramm (perhaps a little too obscure for most) Arthur Chamberlain Tammy Fay Baker... ... wait a minute, sorry, I think I misread the list. Never mind....

Well, setting aside $56B to 're-value' the yen probably doesn't help. Or the cozy relationship MITI (and its successors) have had with Japanese corporations for decades. Or the banks loaning money to Toyota and others at 0% to finance their overseas conquests, while the hapless Japanese consumers tolerated moribund returns on their investments. A negative birthrate doesn't bode well, either. (Although they could import a ton of cheap laborers from West Africa for giggles - see how that's working for Germany, France and others.) Not gonna get a lot of sympathy from the Carbiz corner. Japan Inc's relenteless pursuit of world domination finally ran aground on the shoals of Western ingenuity. Or maybe some people are finally waking up to the fact that not everything imported is good for us? Oh, who am I kidding? Japan Inc simply stole what they needed from the West, but Western companies are tripping over themselves to hand technology to the Chinese. Worrying about 100 million Japanese who salivated over our markets will seem like the 'good old days' once Beijing gets into high gear.

Although many good points have been mentioned in this thread, one major one has been overlooked: that is that Toyota's boring cars mainly appeal to the (large) minority of people who can't think for themselves and believe everything that they read. That type of consumer is VERY susceptible to media 'piling on.' What is happening to Toyota now is nothing more than media 'piling on,' and although I am loving every minute of it, I believe this has the potential to hurt Toyota very, very deeply. Consumer's Reports already threw up the first warning shot 2 years ago when they apologised for automatically giving Toyota the benefit of the doubt on their launches of new vehicles, but only after so many troubles plagued the Camry and Avalon that they had to say something! If Toyota loses CR, they are finished. That is the bible for the brain dead. Will it bankrupt them? Certainly not, but then if you'd told GM executives in '95 that they'd be bankrupt in 14 years, you'd have been laughed out of Detroit. The internet and electronic media were in their infancy in '95. Toyota's foibles are going to be circulated farther and wider than GM's were and in an area that is truly Toyota's Achilles heal. For what else do they have, other than the myth of their durability? At just the time when GM and Ford have their mojo back, Toyota cannot afford this groundswell of truth.

Looks like they can't follow their own editorials: what about the mea culpa they printed 2 years ago where they virtually apologized for giving Toyota free reign on their new model releases? (But only after the 'new' Avalon had so many serious defects - far beyond shiny chrome pieces, that they had to acknowledge SOMETHING.) It's a rag, and I wouldn't let my cat crap on it.

And this is why Detroit will die: so-called fanboys who shoot a model down BEFORE IT'S EVEN LAUNCHED. And your opinion is based on what facts, exactly? Have you test driven the last Ford Fiesta offered on these shores (how many years ago was that, exactly?), and compared it to the latest Aveo? Hell, have YOU even been to Europe and driven the new Fiesta? The Spark is more than a year away from launch and yet the naysayers line up to throw fuel on the fire to watch it burn. Just like the Volt. The biggest reason I stopped reading C&G, after 5 years on this site was the mewling of people who sounded more like spoiled babies (My brand has been killed/why don't they bring back hard tops/minivans are for sissies/why doesn't GM have a 5spd/6spd/20spd transmission yet/the Cobalt is a POS because [insert favorite pev peeve here]) - and this comes from people who, what, see one on a dealer lot? Oh, I know - they test drove one for 20 minutes!!! Yay, I'm an expert..... I need a drink.....

No less than Wards Auto did an article on Apr 26, 2006, entitled "Tyranny of the Enthusiasts." John McElroy penned the article. It's the downright derogatory tone of self-appointed flabby, middle-class writers who turn their noses up at an Aveo or Taurus because of its 'mundane' steering or ride, while lavishing heaps of praise on a 300+ horsepower sedan. WTF? Why? Unless you live in Montana, where the hell can you drive these vehicles to their full potential anyway? Are men's penises getting smaller these days? Let me tell you 2 stories from my hundreds of anecdotes: 1) Friend buys an Acura TL, leasing it for $650/month. He bitches to me that it takes premium gas and the insurance is killing him. I laugh at him and say I could have leased him an Intrigue GLS for $150 a month LESS. How many horspower does the TL have, I ask. He shrugs. Is it a 6 or an 8 I ask him ( I know the answer, but I want to see if he does!) Another shrug. Why did you lease it, then? Oh, because he read in a car magazine that it was a fun car to drive. Story 2: My manager of 5 years, who worked for GM for over 30, died of cancer (this was back in '04). His widow dropped off their leased Alero and was off to a BMW store to pick up a new 3-series. The lady is nearly 65. Would she not have been better suited by a LaCrosse? Ah, but I see her 30-something year old son, sitting in his 5-series waiting to escort her. I choke back remarks about his gold-plated education being paid for by GM, while I remove the license plates from her Alero. I know this lady well: she wouldn't know a key fob from her broach if someone didnt't show it to her: an ideal BMW/Honda buyer if I ever saw one. So, yes, enthusiasts have killed the auto industry. Maybe not all by themselves, but they surely have led the way. When they bitch and moan about 'soft plastics' and 'overhangs' to justify their existence (and big paychecks), it gets silly and plain boring to read their rants.

Well, it IS a Detroit newspaper........... If any media has the right to be biased, I'd say it was by those in a city built by the Big Three.

The Toyota Star, er Toronto Star, buries this in their business section.... Six years ago when GM (and some Nissan and Fords) were experiencing gas tank sending unit troubles, resulting in motorists running out of gas even when the needle showed a quarter full(I would know, the '03 Malibu demo I was driving at the time left me stranded on the side of the road), the Star put it on the FRONT PAGE of their Saturday section (over 1 million readers) and then dedicated 1 1/2 pages inside to the incident of a dumb blonde who ran out of gas on a busy highway in her Cavalier. Oh, but did the Star print a retraction when it was later admitted that PetroCanada had had a problem with one of their refineries and a 'bad batch' of gasoline went through their outlets in southern Ontario that Spring? No. GM's pickup truck liftgate cables rusting out (8 reports of over 4 million vehicles) was on the top 1/2 banner of the Toyota Star, so that every paperbox in the Province prominently showed the recall GM had to do, but later when wheels were falling off the Sequoias and other Toyota SUVs, well, again that was buried. We are the product of 35 years of liberal media brainwashing...........

I would have expected a more intelligent, less visceral response coming from ocnblu... I've driven the Aveo as a demo more than once, and it is far from a horrible car. It may not measure up to YOUR standards of 'fun to drive' (whatever the hell that is!), but people looking to spend $10k or so on a new car to go from A to B, want a good warranty, a reliable vehicle that is easily serviced would happily buy an Aveo, or the upcoming Spark. Sure the Cruze is a better car, even the TDI - but not everyone has that kind of cash to dole out. VW's quality numbers have been in the $h!ter for a very long time. German engineering? Good God! Not everyone wants to spend $20k+ to drive around an econobox. If I had to drive a car that small, I'd rather spend sub-$15k, thanks! Otherwise, give me a 1 or 2 year old Malibu, thanks! The trouble is, the 'enthusiasts' are killing this business. They have pulled the auto companies in 10 different directions. Hell, we'd have cars that get 100 mpg by now if the horsepower wars of the the past 10 years hadn't hijacked the agenda - again! Whether posters around here like it or not (and I know this is an unpopular opinion), the days of drag racing and weekend warrior are coming to an end. Sandwiched between skyrocketing insurance rates, overzealous officers ticketing everything in sight, and CAFE ratings, we are destined to drive golf carts in the near future - probably electric ones at that. I just can't believe Americans time and time again vote for V8s when they are sending buckets of cash to Venezuela, the Middle East and other places that are using that money to incite hatred and violence against the U.S. It makes no sense to me at all!

It looks no more overwrought than the latest iterations from the Mazda and Honda school of design. I wouldn't want a car that small, but then we aren't paying $2.36 a litre (about $8 a gallon)like they are in Brazil and most of Europe. I've said this before and I'll say it again, the world begins to look a whole lot different at $5 a gallon - especially if you're a commuter. To me, the Spark doesn't look that much different than the current Aveo, more evolutionar, IMO. But a car like this never going to light up the posters on C&G, that much is a given.

There are very few cars of the '70s that stand out today. Detroit got hit with 2 oil shocks, bumper crash ratings, unleaded fuel, pollution control regulations, virtually all at once. One of the solutions to reduce a vehicle's weight (and save gas) was to lower the carbon rating of steel, which resulted in most vehicles of the '70s rusting out pretty quickly. The only Ford my father owned, a '76 LTD had rust on nearly every square inch of that car within 3-4 years. His '69 Chrysler 300 had not fared much better. I will say this again, for the umpteenth time: critics like to harp on Detroit because while GM and Ford sold millions of cars each year in the '70s throughout North America, Datsun, Honda, Toyota and Mazda combined didn't come close to even what Ford would sell in a single year. Undoubtedly, rusting Fords, Dodges and Chevys would be found far easier than the Japanese crap of the day. Of course, the critics conveniently forget the rotting Civics and harp about the rusty Fords and Chevys of the day.

Cars like this are a hedge that future gas prices WILL hit $5+ a gallon in the not too distant future. The Aveo/G3, Smart, etc have all done well in urban areas of Canada BECAUSE we are used to $4 a gallon gas. When the world economy rebounds in late '10 or '11, you can bet the price of oil will start climbing and all those V8 Camaros, the new CTS coupe, etc. won't be the vehicles people are lining up for, WHETHER 'ENTHUSIASTS' LIKE IT OR NOT.

Advertising is all about picking the best qualities of a product and shouting it from the rooftops - or are you new to the concept? You think Toyota and Honda's advertising is any better? And if you believe Ford's numbers, I have a bridge (in Quebec) to sell you....

Out of curiousity, OC, are those figures from the Caddy's own trip computer, or did you (or your GM) take the time to calculate the mpg numbers yourself? The reason I am asking is that I have found from personal experience that the trip computers are not very accurate. It's better to do the mpg numbers the old fashioned way: drive till the tank is empty, fill it up, take the odometer reading and figure it yourself. But you've raised a valid point about any of the 'electric' systems: their Achilles heal will be the use of a/c or loss of battery power due to cold weather use (like up here in the hinterland!) None of these systems are going to be perfect, and unless gasoline rises back up to $5, they won't be terribly cost effective either. But I do have great faith in our Arab friends, or the next hurricane in the gulf, to raise those prices back up and I, for one, will be glad to be driving a 4 cylinder that gets 30+ mpg rather than a V-8 hog!