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That's why I still don't quite understand the Saturn experiment. If GM saw that a large chunk of the buying public was abandoning the corporation's products due to subpar vehicles and unacceptable levels of customer service, why didn't it establish initiatives and strategies within the existing brand structure to address those issues? Why did it choose to launch Saturn or buy Saab (which was a troubled company when GM purchased it) and Hummer for that matter? It seems like GM would have realized that if the corporation couldn't fix the problems with its existing 6 brands, then it sure as heck was going to struggle even more by taking on 3 additional brands. GM would have been better off by thinking outside of the box to fix the existing brands instead of attempting to create a new box. For the Saturn experiment to be considered a success, its supposedly pioneering customer service concepts would have eventually spread to all of GM's divisions. It obviously hasn't happened if the customer service experience is still inconsistent throughout GM's dealer network. Now GM has 8 divisions that they have to try to manage while addressing some of the same issues it was facing before it launched "A Different Kind of Car Company". I don't hate Saturn, I just don't understand the thought process that brought about its existence. It seems like most of the concepts that Saturn was supposed to represent could have been implemented without GM launching another division. I also don't quite understand the line of thought that dictates that a person who purchases an economical car or a truck should receive a lower level of customer service than a person who purchases a premium or luxury vehicle. Excellent service should be provided to all customers in an attempt to retain loyalty and expand the business. A person who purchases an economy car today might be a future premium/luxury vehicle customer tomorrow.

How many stand alone Saturn dealerships still exist? The one where I live shares a dealership with one other GM division and a minor Japanese brand. The reason I'm asking this is because I wonder how expensive it would be to pull Saturn into Buick/Pontiac/GMC. This would give GM a strong midmarket premium dealer network with Buick taking the lead. Buick should be the high profile player in this network because it has the most premium image of the 4 brands as well as excellent quality/reliability survey scores (not to mention its popularity in China). With Buick in the lead as the volume member of the network, Saturn, Pontiac, and GMC could be transformed into focused sub-brands to complement Buick. North American built versions of Opel products could be widely used to form or augment the lineups for Buick, Saturn, and Pontiac to save ground up development costs. The network's Opel based products would be differentiated by body style, badging, and grille design. As the volume member, Buick would sell sedans, wagons, and crossovers. Saturn would serve as an entry sub-brand for the network with a lineup of sensible smaller vehicles consisting of hatchbacks and MPVs. Pontiac would be transformed into a coupe and/or coupe-cabrio niche brand. GMC would revert back to its traditional role of premium truck/SUV outlet. This strategy would give GM an economical way to establish a strong midmarket premium division. It would help GM avoid the following issues: 1) Discontinuing brands. Each brand would have a distinct purpose and identity in the midmarket premium network. 2) Rebadged clones. Since Pontiac would have a lineup consisting mostly of rebadged Opel coupe-cabrios, GM would not need to create any more rebadged Chevy clone products for this division. 3) Overlapping models. Since each brand in this network would be assigned specific body styles, there would be no model overlap in this network. GM could duplicate this setup for Opel and Buick in China. Opel of China would align with Saturn in North America and Buick of China would align with Buick/Pontiac in North America (Pontiac's products would need to be absorbed into Buick in the Chinese market since Pontiac doesn't exist there). This would provide GM a cost efficient way to provide their most popular brand in China (Buick) with a wide range of brand appropriate products. Since GM is already giving Buick of China a rebadged Insignia sedan, why not also give them the Astra sedan, Tigra "TwinTop" roadster, Astra "TwinTop" coupe, and Antara crossover? This isn't the best case scenario for Pontiac, but I know GM is financially strapped and worried about upcoming CAFE regulations. I think a 3 car lineup consisting of a rebadged Tigra "TwinTop" roadster, a rebadged Astra "TwinTop" coupe, and either a restyled G6 coupe/coupe-cabrio (Insignia inspired front/end treatment and interior) or rebadged Insignia "TwinTop" coupe (if GM would develop one; I think the Insignia's styling would make a nice base for such a product) would be a brand appropriate future lineup for Pontiac. I would much rather see a RWD based affordable performance lineup instead (like many of you), but this doesn't seem to be in the cards for Pontiac (I don't expect to see a next gen G8 or Solstice, unfortunately). The alternative I proposed is still preferable to rebadged Chevy clones or total extinction. PCS: You don't have to say it; I know it's not going to happen. It's just a suggestion.

If the production version looks anything like this concept version, then it will be one nice looking vehicle. It's a shame that GM has decided not to build or sell it in the U.S.

This article appeared on Autoblog today concerning the Chevy Orlando. It contains quite a few pictures of the vehicle. undefined undefined

If I'm not mistaken, the last thing I read about this is that all the divisions were being "reviewed" except for Cadillac and Chevrolet. I think Hummer is the only one so far that has been referred to as being "for sale". Here are my predictions as to what will eventually happen: * Chevrolet: Continue as the volume, mainstream division. * Pontiac: Will eventually be reduced to subcompact/compact Chevy rebadges and the Vibe until Saturn is ready to join Buick in the midmarket premium dealer network. * Saturn: Will eventually be reduced to subcompact/compact premium vehicles based on next gen Opel products (Corsa, Astra, Meriva, Zafira, Antara) and combined with Buick to cover the midmarket premium segment. * Buick: Will be assigned midsize to large vehicles and combined with Saturn to cover the premium midmarket segment. * GMC: I don't have any idea. * Saab: Will continue to be mostly (if not entirely) FWD based and stay combined with Cadillac to cover the luxury segment. * Cadillac: Will stay combined with Saab to cover the luxury segment with a lineup split between RWD car products and FWD crossover products. I definitely do not want to see Pontiac go, but I believe it will eventually happen.

I appreciate that you are trying to remain positive about Pontiac's future, but there are a few things working against Pontiac: 1) Pontiac is the only brand that is exclusive to North America (I know Saturn is too, but they are supposed to be "aligned" with Opel); it is highly unlikely that GM is going to invest much development money in a brand that is only sold in North America (especially with the U.S. economy in its current precarious state). 2) Upcoming CAFE regulations and rapidly changing market conditions seem to have convinced GM that affordable RWD cars will be a detriment to the corporation; I truly doubt that Pontiac will receive a next gen RWD G8 or Solstice. Except for a few specialty products scattered here and there (none of which will appear in Pontiac's lineup), I think the bulk of GM's RWD products will appear in Cadillac's lineup (and FWD is now even infiltrating Cadillac in the form of crossovers). 3) Buick is paired with Pontiac and Buick has always historically been a more premium brand than Pontiac. Buick also has a large following in China and excellent quality/reliability scores in the U.S. I think GM intends to give Buick a higher profile position in the midmarket premium segment based on these facts. I wouldn't be surprised if GM eventually moved Saturn into the BPG network to complement Buick in the midmarket premium segment, which leaves Pontiac pretty much out of the picture as far as this segment is concerned. I think GM will eventually limit Pontiac to a couple of small rebadged Chevy clones and the Vibe to provide BPG some smaller products until the next generation of small Opel products (Corsa, Astra, Meriva, Zafira, and Antara) are ready for Saturn . Once Saturn is armed with their next gen small Opel based products then GM will slide Saturn into the BPG network and slowly allow Pontiac to fade away. The plug will probably be pulled when the current gen Vibe reaches the end of its model cycle. I hope I'm wrong about this, but some of the corporation's recent activity seems to suggest that this might happen. I would like to see GM do something more with Pontiac, but I really think they don't intend to bother themselves much with this brand. I can think of quite a few solutions that would allow GM to make Pontiac a clearly defined niche brand, but I know that those solutions will never become reality. I'm not saying this to burst your hopes and dreams for Pontiac. I just hate to think how disillusioned you'll be when what appears to be the inevitable happens. I don't think resigning Pontiac to rebadged Chevy clones and restyled Toyota products until it can be eliminated needs to be the ultimate destiny for this historic GM division, but I think GM believes otherwise. I also don't think PCS is being overly negative or pessimistic. He is obviously in a position to receive information about GM's future plans and is simply trying to warn us that Pontiac's future isn't very bright and definitely not what we would want it to be.

It is true that the Lexus ES, Lexus RX, Camry, Avalon, and Highlander all share the same platform, but Toyota has given each product its own unique exterior/interior design and character (what little character that Toyota or Lexus do have) to properly serve its purpose in its respective brand's lineup. This is called platform sharing, Jim! GM took a Chevy Aveo, applied a few superficial cosmetic changes, and renamed it the Pontiac G3. This is called badge engineering or rebadging, Jim! I'm sure you realize the difference; you are just bypassing it in an effort to complete your G3 justification mission. Badge engineering is the reason Pontiac has no definitive brand image or relevance in the market. I think most people wouldn't have a problem with a FWD subcompact in Pontiac's lineup if it was a distinct, brand appropriate product instead of a blatant Chevy clone rebadge job. To many diehard Pontiac fans, the blatant Chevy rebadge clone products represent a general disrespect and disregard that GM seems to have for this historic division. If this is a temporary stopgap measure to appease Pontiac dealers, then I can almost accept it (although I still believe that it further dilutes Pontiac's already watered down brand image). If it is an indication of the brand's future direction, then I say put Pontiac out of its misery and let Buick and Saturn(?) carry on as the corporation's midmarket representatives. I agree that Pontiac could use a subcompact vehicle in its lineup (below the Vibe and G5), but the Aveo cloned G3 is totally inappropriate. I think people are questioning the worthiness of a rebadged Aveo in Pontiac's lineup more so than they are questioning its inclusion in relation to the Vibe. I think the Corvette/Yugo comparison is really stretching it a bit, Jim! A Corvette/Camaro comparision would have been a lot more appropriate for a variety of reasons. Let's face it, Jim: the G3 is a cheap set of wheels that GM assigned to Pontiac to appease the wishes of your dealers. It is NOT anything close to being a sporty alternative! I know your job is to put a positive spin on this product and its placement in Pontiac's lineup. I still think that most people see it for what it is, no matter how much you or GM try to smooth it over or justify it. As far as anyone burying their heads, GM is the poster child for doing just that. This is the main reason GM is scrambling around to meet the rapidly changing needs and expectations of the market. I do realize and accept that GM isn't the only auto corporation in this scenario and that the changes are affecting more aspects of society than just the auto industry. I just hope that the G3 is a temporary stopgap measure to quickly meet those needs and expectations in the near future. There are a lot more attractive and brand appropriate long term solutions GM could explore to satisfy those needs in the future if the corporation doesn't become dependent on providing rebadged Chevy clones as a cheap and convenient quick fix to its issues.

I agree. I don't understand why people are dismissing this car's assets and abilities based on spy shots and grainy pictures. We haven't seen any clear, uncamouflaged pictures or specs/additional info yet. I'm holding out hope that GM has nailed this car and that it will be completely competitive in its market segment. What little I have seen so far looks promising.

I don't have a problem with this if GM can eventually steer the division away from rebadged Chevy clones. If this is the plan, does GM intend to eventually give this division some small cars with distinct designs and character?

I think Opel is definitely headed in the right direction. To me, the Insignia signals the beginning of a cool new design direction for the division. I just hope the division's cool factor eventually translates to the U.S. GM has a gem in Opel if they figure out how to properly exploit it in the U.S. market.

Saab has put out quite a few interesting concepts lately. If the concepts are any indication where the division is headed, maybe GM should hold on to them (I really did think GM should sell them. Some of these concepts have me rethinking my position). Saab may well be on their way to regaining their cool factor in the market. I am actually looking forward to seeing their next generation of products.

+1 I think Buick might have another hit on their hands to followup the Enclave. This car looks great. I can't wait to see the full reveal. I still don't like the "LaCrosse" name, but I can overlook it if Buick nails everything else on this car. If Buick also receives the Insignia based Regal, they would have an excellent 3 vehicle lineup (Enclave, LWB Eps II LaCrosse, SWB Eps II Regal).

This just indicates that Toyota views the Volt as a real threat to their domination of the hybrid segment. They should. The Volt is much more attractive and appealing than their dorky, egg-shaped abomination. If I were to purchase a dedicated hybrid model, the Volt would be my choice. Be afraid Toyota, be very afraid!!!

I wonder if they plan on giving us the Captiva instead? It is smaller than the Equinox and it originated from Daewoo. I'm not sure it would be more fuel efficient than the Orlando though. GM might be questioning the potential success of a compact people mover in the U.S. market that is outside of the traditional crossover/SUV mode. I think they should still bring the Orlando to the U.S. The Mazda5 is not a huge seller, but it has experienced some large increases this year due to increasing gas prices. If the production Orlando turns out to be anything like the sketches, it looks to be a cooler alternative to the Mazda5 that could really kickstart the MPV segment in the U.S. It seems like GM sometimes limits its own potential success by second guessing what it assumes will be successful or accepted in the U.S. market.

+1

I could see GM making Pontiac into a compact and smaller car division while Buick focused on midsize and larger cars. What I refuse to accept are the rebadged Chevy clones. If Pontiac is going to be reduced to this role, GM could at least give the brand something more unique than a Chevy with a Pontiac nose. Platform sharing is fine, but the blatant rebadges are not acceptable. I still think that GM should reconsider transforming Saturn into a full scale division. I know this will never happen, but I think it should be reduced back to sub-brand status and combined with Pontiac and Buick (and GMC?). Opel products could be split between the 3 brands with some brand specific products added to complete the lineups. Saturn could focus on small hatchbacks and MPVs. Pontiac could focus on coupes and coupe-cabrios. Buick would offer sedans, wagons, and crossovers. GMC would revert back to trucks and SUVs only. I know this plan is a little different from what I previously posted. It's just another option that GM could follow to reduce overlap and avoid giving Pontiac twin-nostrilized Chevys. Before anyone says it, I already know that it will never happen. GM would rather waste Pontiac's potential by giving it rebadged Chevy clones instead. Oh well...

It could work if they marketed the Insignia based car as a "4-door coupe" and the Invicta based design as a midsize sedan. My guess would be that the Insignia based model would have less passenger/cargo room due to its shorter wheelbase and coupe-like profile. The Invicta based design seems to be more upright and appears as though it will have passenger/cargo room similar to more mainstream midsize sedan models (as well as a longer wheelbase). Maybe the Insignia based car could be used to try to draw younger buyers into Buick showrooms. I personally think the Insignia sedan would make a nice Pontiac Grand Prix, but PCS has already stated that it will never happen.

It definitely looks much better than the Aveo. I'm not crazy about the name. I would resurrect the "Nova" name for this car.

This one looks cool. It would definitely be a much more brand appropriate product for Pontiac than all the rebadged Chevy clone vehicles that GM stuffs in its lineup.

Since this car already has a CTS style fender vent on it, all GM would need to do is slap a Cadillac grille on it along with some interior upgrades (one zillion way heated/cooled power leather seats, a connectivity package, etc.) and it's good to go. JUST KIDDING!!! I would rather see GM discontinue some divisions or combine them and limit their lineups to 2 or 3 products than continue to utilize blatant rebadging to supply these divisions with products. All this practice does is give the corporation's naysayers ammunition to declare that nothing much has really changed at GM (they would be totally justified in this case). I don't have a problem with a small, fuel efficient Pontiac, but I do have a problem with GM just slapping a twin nostril grille on an Aveo and just calling it a day. I don't even have a problem with using rebadging to create products as long as the contributing product and the resulting product are not sold in the same market. I know some people will claim that they can accept this car if it keeps Pontiac going until GM can "fix" it. I'm not accepting this argument any longer. It has been presented numerous times over the years and GM keeps habitually reverting back to its clone producing methods, even when they were profitable enough to avoid it. With gas prices on the rise, the economy derailed, upcoming CAFE standards, and GM in dire financial straits, I really don't see this happening. If GM intends to keep Pontiac going (which I'm seriously beginning to doubt), the division will continue to be a rebadged Chevy dumping ground. The rebadging practice can only be done so long before a division begins to completely lose its identity or relevance in the market. Pontiac is perilously close if not past this point. As much as I dislike this car, I do have to admit that it looks much better with Pontiac's front end treatment than the oversized Chevy grille on the Aveo (I don't have anything against Chevy's new divisional grille, but they needed to downsize it to properly fit the subcompact dimensions of the Aveo). I would never consider one based on the principle that I don't want to support GM's rebadging practices, but it does look better than its Chevy twin.

Source: Motor Authority, Updated 1:48 P.M., 09/18/08

Unfortunately, it appears so. I think GM needs to do some serious reorganization to their dealer networks so they don't have to churn out this rebadged clone crap in North America anymore. Selling 2 nearly identical vehicles under 2 different brands in the same market is totally unacceptable and serves as an indicator that things haven't really changed all that much at GM. GM should combine Pontiac/GMC with Chevrolet. Pontiac would get an Alpha based 5-door compact sedan (based on the Holden Torana TT 36 Concept) and a Sigma-Zeta based midsize sedan (downsized next gen Holden Commodore) plus the Camaro and Corvette; this would position Pontiac as an affordable performance sub-brand of Chevrolet. GMC would be designated as the corporation's sole truck/SUV division. Chevrolet would become the mainstream volume brand with a lineup consisting of affordable FWD cars and FWD/AWD crossovers. Saturn could be combined with Buick to create the midmarket premium dealer network that serves as a bridge between Chevrolet/Pontiac/GMC and Saab/Cadillac. To save ground up development costs, Euro Opel products would be rebadged and built in North America to supply most of the products for this dealer network (Buick would need 2 or 3 models created specifically for Buick to augment the Opel derived products). Buick would take the lead as the volume division in this network since it has the most premium image of the 2 brands, excellent quality/reliability survey scores, and a high profile in China (the Opel/Buick relationship in China could mirror the Saturn/Buick relationship in North America). Saturn would carry small hatchbacks and MPVs and serve as sort of an entry level small vehicle sub-brand in the dealer network. Buick would carry the sedans, coupes, wagons, and crossovers to reinforce its image as the higher volume premium division in this network. I favored Buick because I believe the brand still has more of a premium perception in the market and would require less effort to be believable and accepted in this role. This isn't my idea of the perfect scenario, but it seems like it would be a cost effective way to accomplish the following goals: 1) Defining divisions (especially Pontiac) and reinforcing the brands' identities with appropriate products. 2) Avoiding the need to stuff rebadged clones into lineups. Although the lineups for Buick/Saturn would consist of rebadged Opels, at least this would be the only network in which these products would appear in the North American market. Under this plan, each dealer network would have smaller, more fuel efficient products in their lineups without GM resorting to creating rebadged clones.

How about something like this: Saturn could be combined with Buick to create the midmarket premium dealer network that serves as a bridge between Chevrolet/Pontiac/GMC and Saab/Cadillac. To save ground up development costs, Euro Opel products would be rebadged and built in North America to supply most of the products for this dealer network. Buick would take the lead as the volume division in this network since it has the most premium image of the 2 brands, excellent quality/reliability survey scores, and a high profile in China (the Opel/Buick relationship in China could mirror the Saturn/Buick relationship in North America). Saturn would carry small hatchbacks and MPVs and serve as sort of an entry level small vehicle sub-brand in the dealer network. Buick would carry the sedans, coupes, wagons, and crossovers to reinforce its image as the higher volume premium division in this network. The lineups would look something like this: SATURN: * Mantra: FWD compact hybrid 5-door based on the Flextreme Concept (E-flex) * Corsa: Rebadged next gen Opel Corsa subcompact 3-door/5-door (Gamma) * Astra: Rebadged next gen Opel Astra compact 3-door/5-door (Delta) * Meriva: Rebadged next gen Opel Meriva subcompact MPV (Gamma) * Zafira: Rebadged next gen Opel Zafira compact MPV (Delta) BUICK: * Cielo: Rebadged next gen Opel Tigra "TwinTop" roadster (Gamma) * Skylark: Rebadged next gen Opel Astra "TwinTop" coupe (Delta) * Regal: Rebadged next gen Opel Astra compact sedan/wagon (Delta) * Invicta: Rebadged Opel Insignia midsize 4-door coupe/wagon (SWB Epsilon) * LeSabre: Upcoming Epsilon based LaCrosse midsize sedan replacement (LWB Epsilon) * Riviera: RWD 2+2 coupe based on the Riviera Concept (Alpha) * Rendezvous: Rebadged next gen Opel Antara compact crossover (SWB Theta) * Enclave: FWD/AWD large crossover (Lambda) I favored Buick because I believe the brand still has more of a premium perception in the market and would require less effort to be believable and accepted in this role. The LeSabre, Riviera, and Enclave would be the only 3 models that require ground up development money from GM. All the rest of the products would be rebadged Euro Opels that would be altered to be market appropriate in North America. To allow GM to create the Buick/Saturn midmarket premium division described above, this is my suggestion for Pontiac/GMC: GM should combine Pontiac/GMC with Chevrolet. Pontiac would get an Alpha based 5-door compact sedan (based on the Holden Torana TT 36 Concept) and a Sigma-Zeta based midsize sedan (downsized next gen Holden Commodore) plus the Camaro and Corvette; this would position Pontiac as an affordable performance sub-brand of Chevrolet. GMC would be designated as the corporation's sole truck/SUV division. Chevrolet would become the mainstream volume brand with a lineup consisting of affordable FWD cars and FWD/AWD crossovers.

I agree. Launching Saturn was such an unnecessary move in the first place. If GM realized that their reputation was tarnished and they were losing market share to Asian imports back in the '80s, why didn't they make crucial changes and improvements within the existing brand structure (Chevy, Pontiac, GMC, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Cadillac)? Does building better vehicles and improving customer service really require launching another division? Just think where the corporation would be today if GM would have invested the money it wasted launching Saturn into building class leading cars and overhauling the existing divisions' customer service techniques. To me, this would have gone further to improve the public's perception of GM than spending billions to launch a division that has evolved into nothing more than just another typical GM brand. The entire Saturn experiment seems like an unnecessary waste of resources, talent, effort, and money.

I'm not sure how much these sketches really reveal about the design of Suzuki's upcoming midsize sedan. Looking at these sketches is still not the same as viewing actual photos. A link to the Motor Authority website is provided below so you can see for yourself. undefined