buyacargetacheck

Why the defensiveness about a corporation and its (failing) strategy? You talk like GM is your mother or something. They're just brands. They're just cars. Saturn and Pontiac and Buick and Chevrolet don't/can't/will never love you back. Really, is it so outlandish to think that GM's branding strategy might be a factor in why it continues to lose market share and money? P&G (and most other successful companies) would have done something by now. That's why these P&G brands no longer exist: White Cloud, Banner, Bold, Citrus Hill, Dash, Duz, Encaprin, High Point, Monchelle, Pace, SELF, Puritan, Rely, Salvo, Thrill, and Wondra.

Given that the Opel-Saturn thing isn't working as planned why not have Saturn take over the G6's new fleet queen role? Saturn could be GM's mostly fleet (75%?) brand to protect the Chevy and Buick resale values, image. Saturn has a weak image and the image that it has is "budget." Pontiac could be freed to offer 2 cars: the Solstice and G8. Maybe a Kappa based sport sedan later. The Sky gets axed. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1204568746...=googlenews_wsj Eight-Brand Pileup Dents GM's Turnaround Efforts By JOHN D. STOLL March 4, 2008; Page B1 Michael Maguire has mixed feelings about General Motors Corp.'s coming launch of the Chevrolet Traverse, a seven-passenger crossover wagon that promises to boost sales at his family's Chevy dealership along Route 206 in Bordentown, N.J...

So, it looks like the end for the Grand Prix came in February. Low sales and no production. No announcement either... http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/...8Production.pdf

Looks like increased fleet sales for Cobalt and G6 (50% sales increases in a down market with old product). And it looks like the Grand Prix quietly went out of production. I don't recall seeing an announcement. So, the G6 is picking up GP's fleet sales nicely. With the G6 in production through 2013 could this be the new midsized fleet queen for GM? That coupled with the in-doubt future for G8 makes Pontiac's future look pretty grim.

How long have you had that car and where did you buy it? I had a good friend in high school back in the 80s in New England whose parents had one exactly like yours: 1969 silver Custom-S Hardtop. His dad claimed it had (if I remember right) a Mickey Thompson Sprint block installed at the factory by mistake. It was a daily driver and quite a sleeper (all the way down to the taxi cab-style front bench covers). They later replaced the standard hubcaps with Rally IIs. Nice looking sled.

Some of you need to get a life. Or at least a squeeze. Wrapping yourself up in a "brand" that you have no control over and whose seeds of destruction were sewn long before many of you were born is madness. Our car culture is coming to a slow, drawn-out end very soon. Many of you are disappointed and will continue to be disappointed. If PCS really is the GM insider he says he is why in the f..k would any of you dunderheads chase him off? Not too bright. Not too bright.

I do what I can.

It's obvious you've never sold cars before. Yes, there are buyers who research everything up and down and know exactly what they want. However, this group is much smaller than the group that is easily swayed by professional persuaders to buy something that's in stock or has a good deal. Left-brained versus right-brained people. It's easy to imagine dealers pushing STs that are piling up like cord wood on buyers who are disappointed to find that the Solstice they wanted (turbo or whatever) isn't available in the right color, price whatever. Nobody leaves the dealership with old wheels and everybody rides. El Camino enthusiasts? The question is how many "El Camino enthusiasts" find this ST to be an emotional equivalent to the EC of their youth AND who are in the market for a 2 seat car AND who have money/credit? Not many is the correct answer. I remember when the El Camino and Ranchero were cancelled - a total non-event friend. Nobody cried.

No doubt two Camaros would look better than one in front of your doublewide. Both the Solstice and ST are commuter vehicles at best and toys at worst. No one will know about the ST because Pontiac won't advertise it nationally (for long if at all) because of the low volumes. So, the natural buyer will be the dude who comes in to look at a Solstice but ends up digging the ST. More likely, the ST will find few buyers and a sales run here of about 3 years. About the same time Chief Pontiac hangs up his headdress for good.

Actually the only guy I personally know here in LA (furrin car land) who owns a Ridgeline actually works in a beer factory. All American Army National Guardsman with foreign experience. A real patriot:)

GM must have collective dementia. Dull Australian styling coupled with 2 seat impracticality wrapped up in a damaged brand not known for pickups is a recipe for failure. Who besides the cheap-beer swilling (not that that's a bad thing btw), tank-topped greasy hillbilly maxxed out on his limited credit will even care about such a beast? Has GM ever heard of the Subaru Baja, which only sold 30,000 units in 4 years? How did its own 2 seat SSR do? Will this dog cannibalize Solstice sales? Is GM trying to kill Pontiac?

Until the 1957 fuel-injected Bonneville, Oaklands/Pontiacs were value-priced, pedestrian-performanced cars. Dull in every sense. The "short" decade of the 1960s (particularly the latter half) was solely responsible for Pontiac's "performance heritage." It's been middle-of-the-road-mediocre ever since - no more performance-oriented than Chevy. So, Pontiac's roots (and reality up to this day) are about value with a sporty grill. Just ask any Canadian - that's why Pontiacs sell well up there. It's amazing that this even needs to be explained to GM "enthusiasts."

I'm not Pontiac's biggest fan, but to be fair it could go another way: As long as the PBG channel exists and the new CAFE regs hold up I don't see why GM couldn't make money selling fuel-efficient Vibes, Deltas and maybe a GMDAT small car in addition to the Solstice as an entry to Buick. Pontiac returns to its original roots and the performance pretension fades - basically Pontiac USA adopts Pontiac Canada's traditional positioning. Better yet, Pontiac USA and Pontiac Canada adopt Pontiac Mexico's lineup sans the van and Torrent. A unified lineup would mesh well with CAFE and the governing establishment's desire during the next US president's term to merge the economies of North America.

How is it that the Civic and Corolla absolutely trounce this thing in fuel economy? All three are C class cars and sport 1.8L engines. Hell, even the Cobalt with a 2.2L about matches the Astra. Lower NVH coupled with high fuel economy are what set Civic and Corolla apart from lesser-engineered cars. The boys at Opel should try again.

That engine likely would have replaced Cadillac’s long-running Northstar V-8, which is scheduled to end production in 2010. So would it be safe to say that model year 2010 is the last year for the G-body? Let's see, you have Lucerne and DTS currently being built at Hamtramck. The 3.8L goes out of production at Flint North by the end of summer 2008 replaced by LZ4 and LY7. So, model years 2009-2010 Lucerne will have LZ4, LY7 and/or Northstar. OR, MY2009 Lucerne uses already produced 3.8L and Northstar, and then uses Northstar exclusively in MY2010 as NG LaX ramps up. So, Lucerne is effectively "replaced" by EpII LaX for model year 2010 but there will be one year of overlap for 2010 as EpII production ramps up. Hamtramck starts production of Chevy Zafira in 2009 for 2010 model year as separate G-body production winds down. Zafira ramps up hugely for 2011 model year joined by the Volt in 2013, 2014? Sound about right?

That's probably what will happen.

With the upcoming mileage regs and a dying full-sized sedan buyer population is it worth making an Impala at all in 2010-2011? Who's buying "full-sized" sedans anyway? Isn't it mostly older empty-nesters? The Ford sedan sales are down (Panther and D3). The LX sales are down (lots of fleet too). Buick is shifting towards an ES and RX competitor and away from 6-passenger, column-shifted, bench-seated traditional stuff. Avalon is an incremental seller. Plus a bigger Ep-II Malibu will cover the market even better. Chevy should rename that car the "Impala" and then rename the Delta offering "Malibu." This would be much more forward-thinking in a world of 35 mpg. Face it ladies: V-8s, RWD and traditional large sedans are fading away.

Smart move. That and cancelling the Northstar replacement. $4, $5, and $6 gasoline is coming. It won't be far off when the just released Malibu (and Camry and Accord and...) is considered a land yacht. The family car of the future looks more like a Focus or Astra. Even if you could afford a V-8 you might be embarrassed to drive one.

For the sake of peace I hope that YellowJacket, GM4life, etc are all of about 12 years old and therefore not representative of the general adult population. The thought of a population "entitled" to a lifestyle that isn't sustainable is a scary thought. There is no magic bullet on energy. Oil is nature's one-time gift and it will be coming to end in our lifetimes. Politicians and government have nothing to do with natural resource depletion. This is not a matter of "surrender." It's a matter of understanding that there's no such thing as getting something for nothing. All the "alt fuels" are actually old news and have been around in one form or another since the beginning of the car business. About the only one that hasn't resurrected itself yet is steam. I'm sure the "news" media will be on that one as oil continues its rise. BTW, anyone look up from their comic books today to notice that oil hit $100/barrel for the first time? $200 and higher will be here sooner than you expect. Bank on it. A parting thought: when I was a teenager Nissan made a big deal about how they were working on hydrogen and elecrtic-powered vehicles!!! The future is now - fuel economy and overall usage is even worse. For your own sake, start thinking about a world where you walk instead of drive.

I have a hard time imagining GM giving up 300,000 sales just so they can use Zeta. Sure, some of those sales are going to go to the Malibu in 2008. But the public is already quite satisfied with FWD Impalas judging by the sales success. Plus, who and how many are really chomping at the bit for a RWD Chevy sedan? Besides the enthusiasts on this board many of whom probably wouldn't/couldn't buy one if offered? Add in the new fuel economy regs and it just makes sense to do a well-styled, chromed up, heavily insulated, soft riding, lengthened Malibu to fight the Avalon at a slightly lower price point.

Seriously, I could see this being the Silverado of the future. Since we've seen the zenith of the housing boom and now tougher fuel regs, the age of the hulking pickup is coming to a close. We just won't be building in the U.S. like we used to after our ghost economy (built on haircutting and fried chicken sales) implodes. European tradesmen seem to do fine with smaller work vehicles. Why can't we? Giddyup.

We'll be forced to make sacrifices in the coming years because of circumstances (we've mortgaged our future to foreigners and we're importing almost 3 of every 4 barrels of crude we use while world production declines because of natural depletion) NOT because of governments. Longer term Washington will become impotent as power devolves from the center. Capitalism and democracy are not linked. They are near polar opposites. What makes you think we live in a democracy??? Because we are privileged to vote for 2 wings of the same faction: rich powerful interests? If you study U.S. history a little more deeply you'll find that the Founding Fathers organized government to benefit the wealthiest members while giving just enough rights and privileges to the free white working class (the ones just above indentured servantry) to keep them on the rich man's side. Unlike we've all been taught, the Revolution was not about freedom and equality for all men. It was a struggle between two privileged classes, American and British, fought mostly by poor whites promised various tokens of upward mobility. Look out when the upper class (bankers, financiers, industrialists) can no longer keep the prosperity flowing to the middle classes. All hell will break loose. It happened in the 1930s and can happen again. Please, I'm no Marxist. But even I can say that Marx's analysis of capitalism had quite a bit of it right.

Terrific. Let me know how it goes with your high school Armed Services recruiter.

I really hope you are right. What makes you think we will find a true replacement?