smk4565

Or you can kill off the Pontiac or Buick brands that are dying anyway and there is all sorts of room to sell Impalas at $26-35k. Factor in inflation also, every car has gone up in price, by 2011 $30k for an Impala won't be that much, the Avalon and 300C run near $40,000 now. A Buick sedan priced the same as a Cadillac sedan won't work, Buick is not a luxury brand. Cadillc does have to move up market though, they are really close to being Lincoln or Acura in their current form. The D-series car at 50-70k won't compete with the 7-series or S-class. That is what an E-class costs. They have to engineer the hell out of the DTS and put in leather, carpet, wood and aluminum in the interior, all that costs money. The VW Phaeton (though a flop) was engineered with 10 parameters, one of which, was that the car had to be able to go 180 mph, in 122 degree heat while maintaining and interior temperature of 71.6 degrees. The name DTS won't work, that is what 74 year olds buy, I'll call it ULS (not fond of that name either) for now. The ULS should have 4 seats that move a minimum of 14 ways, heated, cooled and message in all 4. The top speed of the V8 (or V12) model should be over 200 mph (yes faster than a Z06), the door hinges should be able to support 400 pounds of weight, the base car should get over 25 mpg in the city or 25 mpg avg, 65 or less dBA interior sound at 70 mph. Rust warranty should be 14 year/unlimited miles, bumper to bumper warranty of 7 years/100k miles. The S-class has 35 years of engineering behind it, Cadillac needs to start catching up. The ULS needs to aim higher than anything GM has ever built. Lexus is rumored to be doing a 500+ hp V12 engine for the LS, could be a hybrid V12 also.

The compact entry level luxury cars aren't that bad in mileage, an Acura TL beats a Malibu V6, the MKZ is about the same, maybe 1 mpg better, the Audi A4 2.0 gets about 23-24 mpg, that is almost as good as the Cobalt. I think the problem GM has, is their luxury cars are all big, and they don't have small, premium cars like the Mini Cooper, Volvo C30, A4, IS20, etc. Personally, I wouldn't consider any of those cars, but for people that live in NY, or LA and are always in the city, not on highways or climbing hills, the power to economy ratio of those cars fits their needs. The BTS better not be $29,000, Camrys cost that much. Cadillac needs to aim higher. At some point they need to compete with the 5-series and E-Class. Cadillac needs a mid level car, a $37,000 car interior won't match up the the $53,000 E350. Even if Zeta is the best platform GM has ever made (which I am not convinced of yet), will people pay $90-100,000 for a car built on it. Maybe if they can do Sigma II in steel for the CTS at $45k, they can do an aluminum version for a CLS-style STS that is $55-70k, and price the big car at $$85,000+.

I agree here, they need a Zeta Impala that is better than the Genesis, better than any Buick or Pontiac. I would love to see aluminum Cadillacs, but it is expensive, and GM struggles with building expensive sedans, and they probably don't think they can sell a $50-60,000 CTS. I have been going on for years about how Cadillac needs to go upmarket. The CTS should be on an aluminum frame, weigh 3600 pounds, 8-speed automatic and 305 hp V6 in the base model, if it costs $50,000 so be it. An E-class is $52,000 base price and they sell just fine.

Luxury cars are no where near as bad as GMT900s or even the Lambdas in gas mileage. Even a gas hog like the 550i gets the same mileage as an Enclave or Acadia AWD, and the 535i and CTS get the same mileage as the Malibu and better than a G8 V6. Although your point about congestion in cities is very valid, and there should be fuel efficient luxury cars for those that idle in cities a lot and never get on a highway. Mercedes has a 30 mpg S-class hybrid coming and a diesel hybrid S-class that gets mileage of a Prius coming, Lexus will have a hybrid over every vehicle they make in a few years. Jim Taylor said that Cadillac would wait to see how successful Mercedes is with diesels before they try it, that is a huge mistake. The mild hybrid system is good for about 2 mpg, maybe 3. That would make a V6 G8 getting 20/27 mpg, not 30/45. Since the 2.2 Ecotec is rated at 22/31 in the Cobalt and less in the HHR, I think 24/36 out of a GM V6 is not going to happen. I would like to see a smaller DI V6 in the 3.0-3.2 liter range with 240-250 hp and better mileage than the 3.6 , because the 3.6 is thirsty for some reason and 245 hp is fine for most front drive cars. Weight reduction is key, GM has lots of heavy cars.

Wow, this sounds like I wrote it, haha. Pontiacs and Buicks depreciate fast, actually Cadillacs do also compared to BMW or Lexus. They all make for good used car buys, but not new car buys. The G8 coupe would probably get near the low end price of a G37, and Infiniti is a lot more prestigious than Pontiac. Plus there is CAFE to consider, since GM builds Hummers, Silverados and Yukons, they'll need lots of 4-banger cars to offset that when the day that cars and trucks are combined comes.

I actually think Pontiac should become fleet central, the Vibe, G6, G5 are priced the same or less than the Chevy counterparts, at least then the fleet sales would be from one brand, not multiple brands like it is now. Then only one brand has poor resale value. I thought when the UAW contract was ironed out it said the G6 was getting an update for 2012-2013. I think this car has 4 more years in it's current form, so I can't see it being anymore than a rental car as times goes on. It is already uncompetitive.

It doesn't offer any benefit, but it is cheap to build, and Pontiac and Buick are both rely on incentives and low prices to move cars, so they need cheap engines like the 3500 and 3800. Same reason the 3400 is in the Equinox and Torrent, it s a cheap engine and it is built in China and is even cheaper. The G6 is priced below the Malibu, it isn't a sports sedan, it is an economy/rental sedan.

Ok, my mistake, the 1987 3800 only had 170 hp, the 2008 Lucerne's 197 hp is a quantum leap forward, although it is 8 hp behind the 1994 LeSabre/Park Avenue. And the Northstar was revamped to run on regular gas in 2000, so that is impressive, no horsepower or fuel economy gains in 15 years though. But isn't like other automakers have gone from 190 hp V6s to 300 h V6s or 250 hp V8s to 400+ hp V8s over that same time period.

I agree, GM renames cars and models too much, same with base, LS, LT at chevy and then base is LS and there is LT1, LT2, LT3, etc. I think they change car names a lot because cars like the Grand Prix get dated and fleeted out so the reputation is trashed and they have to give a car a new name, vs Accord/Camry which have been around forever and people are familiar with it. Buick is cheap, that is why they have the 3800, and most of their customers drive slow and don't know the difference anyway. The Northstar powered Lucerne is slower than a V6 Malibu or Camry and the 6-speed doesn't fit on their ancient chassis. The Lucerne won't be competitive until it has a new chassis, new styling, new engine, new interior, new transmission, new marketing and new customer base. Once they take care of that, Buick is on the comeback trail.

Maybe GM could buy Duesenberg and try to bring them back. They had awesome cars. Since GM paid off all the Olds dealers, maybe one way to reduce the sales channel and dealer problem is kill 3-4 brands and bring back Olds but sell the license fee at a premium price to offset the dealer payoffs to dump dead weight like Saab, Hummer, Buick, and so-so Saturn.

I would suspect minimal changes in the sedans, they haven't upgraded the engine/transmission since 1987, why start now.

They sold 261,000 cars in 2000 with 5 models. Buick, Hummer and Saab this year combined won't sell that many cars and they have 8 models. I agree that Olds had the right idea, they just weren't allowed to see it through. They were going DOHC and trying to improve interiors 8 years ago. Just now Buick-Chevy are getting DOHC V6s to compete with Honda and Toyota.

Oldsmobile should return, their cars were better than any Buick, Pontiac or Saturn offerings.

Motortrend isn't always reliable, but 300 hp is probably doable with a DI turbo version of the 2.4 liter. Would be a good engine for the Camaro also.

I thought of 2 more, the side bolsters each move 2 ways. When you go into a sharp left turn, the right side bolster pushes forward so you don't slide in the seat. The Mercedes S-class does this also.

The seat cushion extends out, lumbar is 4 way, head rest is either 2 or 4 way, I don't know what all 20 ways are, but the car has 20 way seats. The lower part of the headrest also pulls out on both side to wrap around your neck like an airplane pillow. The G8's competitors are Charger, 300, Genesis. Perhaps a Maxima if you don't care about fwd vs rwd and maybe some people that don't use their back seat more than once a month will consider a Mustang or Camaro.

Toyota is upping Prius production to 480,000 in 2009. I think the car is ugly inside and out and would never buy one, but that is pretty good sales number for a car that deep into it's life cycle. Domestically, the Prius sells about 270,000 a year. There is a market for 40+ mpg vehicles, that GM is missing. Plus GM needs them to offset the Silverado on CAFE regs. I do like the idea of diesels. No market is shrinking faster than full size SUVs and GM seems to have a lot of vehicles there. The Honda Odyssey outsells the Lambda trio, the minivan market isn't that bad.

Person B should buy a 3 year old 550i. Or there are some 06 STS-Vs for $40 grand around here, $45-48k for 07s. Cadillac does make a great used car buy. Which is great for people like me that like to buy a 2 year old car, but not good for GM or a new car buyer.

It is good to see retail sales of the key cars like the Malibu up, they need to get away from the fleet cars that kill resale values. Hummer down 23%, they aren't even on pace to sell 40,000 units this year. This brand can be dumped, it is going to be a big CAFE liability and the money would be better spent on Cadillac. Buick down 18.2%, on pace for under 150,000 sales this year. This brand is dying faster than it's customer base. Chevy was down 16.9%, that can't all be due to less Malibus to Avis, they need an all new Cobalt, all new Impala, and a hybrid that gets 40+ mpg city like the Prius. (The Volt could be huge, but they need a low cost hybrid also) A minivan and a better Aveo wouldn't hurt either. They should make Pontiac a fleet brand and give Chevy the product it needs. Chevy should get 2 products per year (10-12 products 5-6 year cycle) as good as the 08 Malibu.

They should actually compare the G8 to the STS, they are the same length and weight. The G8 is 5 inches longer than the 550i. The STS flopped because it wasn't as good as a 5-series (bland styling too) and was too big to handle like the smaller German cars, the same size car with a rubbermaid interior isn't a competitor to the 5-series when the STS isn't even a legit competitor. When the G8 gets 7.1 surround 14 speaker stereo, night vision, active steering, lasar cruise control, blind spot monitor, auto on/off high beams, 20-way seats, power sunshades, free maintenance, 12 year rust warranty, heated and power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, etc, etc then the discussion can begin. I would love to see GM make a 5-series competitor, but right now they don't have one. The 5-series is great to drive, but I don't care for the styling. If they finally do challenge the 5-series and E-class Cadillac will be the brand to do it. I don't think GM has the resources or guts though to make a CTS that bases at $52,000 like the E-class.

The Mustang GT vs XLR comparison is no worse than a G8 vs 550i comparison. BMW 550i drivers are probably not even considering cars under $55,000 let alone $33,000. The G8 is as fast as a 550i at less cost, a Mustang GT or is faster than an XLR at much less the cost. The 550i has more luxury features than an XLR or STS-V so to compare it to a car with an interior worse than the Malibu is not a valid comparison. Interior room does not equal luxury either, otherwise the G8 is more luxurious than a CTS, plus it is faster 0-60 so I guess the G8 is better than a CTS using Pontiac logic. Pontiac should compare the G8 to the Charger, 300, Genesis, maybe a G35 sedan.

A couple parts of it are funny, but I am not sure GM made that ad either, it seems too tacky. I don't like comparisons with cars that are not the same class, like Hyundai Genesis vs 7-series and A8 comparos. A Mustang GT is faster 0-60 than an $80,000 XLR and has more interior room, does that make the Mustang a better and more luxurious car? The 550i does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, so the G8 isn't faster. The 550i has a nice twin turbo V8 and 8-speed automatic coming soon.

I never knew that, but Sigma is old anyway, it came out in 2002, the 5-series will have had 2 new chassis (E60 in 2004 and F10 in 2010) during Sigma's lifetime. If Sigma can't do convertibles, then they need to engineer that into SigmaII, along with some weight saving materials.

While I doubt anyone shopping for a $95,000 SL550 is considering anything from Cadillac, there has been a CTS convertible rumor for a while. I remember the dealer telling me that it was in the works a couple years ago, they also said awd and a coupe were coming, so they got 2 of those. But GM changes their minds a lot, so who knows if we'll see a convertible. They might as well built it since the XLR is supposed to get canned in a couple years. Unless they are planning on doing a BTS convertible . But they should have one in their lineup.

A Tahoe or Yukon isn't any more useful than an Acadia (aside from towing), although a better comparison is the Mercedes GL320. The Mercedes is heavy at 5300 pounds, but a Tahoe/Escalade is heavier, and both vehicles are the same length and have the same number of seats and the Benz tows over 7000 lbs and gets better mileage than the Tahoe Hybrid. 3200 pounds for a Jetta isn't bad, a Cobalt is the same and the Cobalt is all plastic. The M5 is just over 4000 lbs, a CTS-V is 4300 lbs with an automatic. The next M5 has the front part of the chassis made of aluminum (50/50 balance and cut weight) and they will use carbon fiber as well, so it should be under 4000 pounds.