Chicagoland

Olds was getting better products, but not the sales comeback. Import buyers were not interested, and old time Olds fans who loved plush 98 Regencys were scared off. Anway, here's some dumb arguements from people I know against bail out: "They will just use money to throw a party" [its not AIG] "They should go bankrupt and fire the union workers" [and hire who?] "No one bailed me out, so I dont care if othres lose jobs" [so it's OK to have 25% unemployment?] "Workers can get re-trained easily" [Working at Walmart?]

There wasnt even a year 2000 Aurora. They jumped to 2001 in early '00 when new gen was introduced. And, the 88 was the older H body, while Aurora was G body. GM's big mistake with the sister divisions was in 1987-88, when Buick and Olds had to 'switch' identities. Buick went from 'sporty-Euro' to 'floaty boats', and Olds did vice versa. But, Buick's GN and T -Types had a cult following, and they lost a lot of cred in killing them. Olds was fine being 'plushmobiles', in fact that got them to #3!

"Tell me, who here can tell the difference between a 2000 LeSabre versus a 2000 88? " Here is one big difference: The Olds Eighty-Eight was last sold for 1999 MY.

Also, what helped Pontiac comeback in the 50's was being the 'star' car on 'I Love Lucy' for the trip West. [#1 show then] It was a '55 convertible.

They dont mean the cars will get the 35 mpg standard, they mean that the cars will get better mileage to meet the fleet average #'s. Mopar will have to bring back a Neon and a B class car to help get the 35 avg.

Pontiac is staying around. I wonder if the G3 will be killed before its even introduced?

The 'Saturn Project' should have been a J car replacement in 1990, and all the $Billions spent could have gotten improved W, G, N, and Y cars too!

Saturn's been losing $$ for decades, and the 'snobs' who cant buy a good Chevy just 'cuz of the name can go pay $$$ to Korean makes. [in fact old J cars are outlasting old SL's] And yes importing Opels with Euro costs was a flop, but not sharing platforms world wide. Buick is a core brand, since GM is a global company, China adds many #'s to the 7000 sold in US. Look at the big picture, not just your local auto mall. GMC makes $$$, and that is what matters most.

The loyal Saturn buyers sure dissappered to the next trend and so on. Those that are so petrified of buying a car it has to have "one price". I say same thing, get real and learn how to negotiate! Anyway, it about time they finally say what is really on the chopping block instead of 'oh nothing to see here'.

It's too bad about Saturn, I think they are dying. People still think of them as 'cheap small plastic cars' and balk at the higher prices But as said above, the Malibu is doing good is spite of it all. Should push the Cruze into production asap.

"Chinese built sedan becomes Buick Invicta, killing existing Buick LaCrosse/Pontiac G6/Saturn Aura" So, GM should fire US/CDN workers for a China car? No way! Saab is #1 on hit list I think, dump it to Renault or Volvo.

People were complaining about the styling, but this is not the car's worth.

Even with cheaper gas, GM needs to still sell the Volt for Public Relations and to appease Greenies, who want these cars. Prius sales are down, but Toyota is not going to suddenly drop the car. Long term, we cant rely on cheap oil.

FWIW, Car and Driver actaully rated the Civic Si BELOW the Cobalt SS in Jan. issue. Civic's are now average 'Mom and Dad' cars. Only the pre-2001's can be still considered 'sporty'.

"a pretty damn successful and fresh foundation for a mid-size sedan" The G6 is a GM Corp Epsilon platform, not 'whipped up in Pontiac MI by descendants of John DeLorean and Jim Wangers, and the G8 is from GMH. There is no wholly separate engineering, R&D, plant, etc, etc, etc. "established dealer network" Pontiac dealers are dualed mostly, now. "almost exclusive rights to the affordable RWD market that it affords" Huh? What about Ford and Chevy's pony cars? And, how is the $35K+ RWD G8 'affordable'? Rebates? Only way Ponitac can be "sold" is if a Chinese firm buys the name to put on cheap cars made with child labor. There would not be any "remanufactured 60's GTO's" coming from China, more like Kia copies or left over Suzuki Forenzas.

I don't think -34% is 'gaining market share', and 'saved by 0' will hit their resale badly.

Per CNN and Det. News, it's been re-sceduled to Thursday.

Word of mouth sells, not splashy TV ads or endorsements. Seems that the only GM product to benefit from Sports was the Escalade from all the players driving them. With no ads at all. Get some of same players to drive Enclaves and Malibus.

I saw "Roger and Me" and his whole rant was to 'keep the plants open'. Yet, when he looks at the new cars, he dismisses them as 'overpriced junk'. WTF? he expects GM to make cars, yet he refuses to buy them. Also, I always liked AutoWeek, and the letter is more proof. Car and Driver can go to $!#!#

I will write a nasty letter, how dare they!

If anyone in Congress suggests that GM "stop making vehicles that get under 20 mpg city". Then, say, well no Euro companies can sell them here. Bye bye big MB, big Beemer, Rolls-R, and the Italian sports cars! Then, the 'elite' will realize they cant have it both ways. Also, if they suggest 'no more big trucks', ask "Well how the $%@#! will your landscapers, contractors, Joe the Plumers, get to your McMansions to do work?" and " you really think a Prius can carry heavy ladders and still get 40 mpg????"

Someone posted in another forum about how this is a 'superficial sound bite' era, and all that matters is surface BS, such as the Pvt jet issue.

G8 maybe would go, but not Camaro, since Chevy and Cadillac would be bolstered. PBG and Saturn are 'on the bubble'. SAAB is a Zombie.

Probably what will have to happen is more job losses, unemployment claims, and closed businesses before some idiots in Congrees get the hint.

I agree, but is it possible for an employee owned GM? It sorta worked for United Air Lines.