Frisky Dingo

Yes, I said to do that as a last resort. If you want a 100% guarantee you won't have to talk to a salesman, go when the dealership is closed. I don't think that's too difficult to understand. Also, if you don't like talking to salesmen, don't go a year before you plan on buying. I didn't think that one would be hard to understand, either. For anyone but those with the most hectic schedule, the car buying process should take no more than a few weeks at max. Decide what you can spend, what your needs/wants are, and do some research to see what vehicles fit the bill. Compile a short list of prospects, go look at them and drive them. Once you've done so, pick one you like the most. It's not freaking rocket science. If you are shopping cars 6-12 months before buying and/or going to look at a car multiple times- ie, once to see it, once to drive it, etc- and complaining about dealing with salesmen/managers, you are just making it difficult on yourself.

You are contradicting yourself. Topic starts by essentially complaining about overbearing salesmen. I say I don't waste my time on someone who is a year away from buying. And that person shouldn't even be at a dealership yet. Because they are wasting their own time, too. And they are putting themselves in the very situation they claim to dislike. You lose your mind.

Exactly. When I go to a nice restaurant, I don't want my waiter to kiss my ass. I want GOOD SERVICE. Those are NOT the same things.

Being in the service industry is not about kissing ass. Regardless of it you are a waiter, a car salesman, whatever. You are either now just being hateful or, if that is truly your real outlook on people who hold these jobs, you're a fack1ng @ssh0le.

1. That was my exact point. Any no reasonable person should expect someone to buy a car without having driven it. In fact, it is detrimental to the process, not an advantage. Your idea of renting one for a bit is an extremely good idea that more people should take advantage of. Even if you like the vehicle on a test drive, there could be some issue you discover after the fact that could possibly have been illuminated by renting such a car prior to purchase. 2. I'm not sure how this pertains to the topic. Of course they put in more time. There are much more documents, more things to be done, etc, etc. They are also much better compensated in general. All that said, I think just like with buying a vehicle, many people overthink home buying and make things more difficult than they need to be. Yeah, in addition to being a prick today, you must have lost your ability to read, as I clearly said, "If you are a year away....." I simply pointed out something that people do that is part of the problem they so readily complain about. You don't like salesmen, don't like dealerships, whatever, don't go to them until you're almost ready to buy! Wow, what a concept! If you are a month away, that's totally different.

That's a real shitty way of looking at something. And you want to make salesmen out to be bad guys. You don't even care about the fact you are wasting their time that they could be spending with a serious customer. And you know....getting paid. Which is why they have a job. And the customer's time must not be that important, because it's a waste of it, too.

See, in your haste to be defensive, you are now putting words in my mouth. Point to where I said you should only go if you are about to purchase immediately. I'll wait. It's not a shitty attitude. It's customers being shitty and wasting someone's time. And customers wonder why salesmen hate them? Two way street buddy.

If you are a year away from buying something, you have absolutely NO place on a dealer lot other than for service or to buy parts. Don't even try to pull that BS line as an argument. You don't have to worry about me pressuring you for a sale, anyone who tells me they are a year away from buying I cordially give them a card and tell them to have a nice day. I, and any other good salesman have less than 0 interest in wasting time with someone who is a year away from buying a car.

Right, but the flip side to this is why do you need to sit in a car you have no interest in buying?

Which is precisely what I advised in my first post.

I won't turn down any new product that can drive new car traffic into the store at this point, but I don't see this being a major sales success.

I'm not going to argue with you. Instead, I will reiterate my point- If you do not like the idea of having to speak to someone who is doing their job, don't go while said person is there, ie- while the establishment is closed. You can try to reason around that all you want, but if go to a place of business while they are open, employees there are going to do their job. That's just the way it is. If you can't accept that, don't go there while they are open.

First, you need to understand the salesman was just doing his job. You don't dictate his job, his Manager does. His Mgr is the one with the authority to discount prices, and he is the one who sets the sales process in place. Nearly every dealership has rules in place for the salesman to check in with management before letting a customer leave. Sometimes they involve the Mgr coming over to talk to you, sometimes they don't. Either way, the salesman has to follow the rules, just like you do at your work. If he doesn't, the Mgr may prevent him from taking any more ups, not give him leads, etc. My only advice I can give is to tell them up front you are still in the early stages of your process, and that you don't plan on buying anything today. If the salesman needs to get the Mgr before you go, let him do his job. Politely reiterate what you told the salesman to the Mgr. At that point, you should not encounter any resistance in leaving. If you do, that dealer is not a place you want to do business. If you don't like my suggestion, or the notion that you may have to speak to someone with more seniority than the salesman, than I suggest not going during business hours.

Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB? Why are their backseats so small? Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's? And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster.

This will be a much different vehicle in execution to the 2-row Atlas. This will be way nicer, and way more capable. The Atlas could be 2.0T or 3.6 V6 (or hell, even just make it 2.0T only) w/ FWD or AWD, and the Touareg would be 3.0T V6 only in our market. Atlas would start just under 30K, and like the current 7 seater, run up close to/right at 50K. The Touareg would be starting at that point. They would serve two very different buyers.

Peugeot

The Touareg was never in danger of being cancelled. They just had no plans to bring the new one to NA. Which I think is dumb. This is the first generation that could have been a sales success, and they are just giving up on it.

Recalls in and of themselves are meaningless. Every MFR has recalls. The scope and cause of them is dependent upon many, many things beyond reliability.

Wow. Welcome to 2018 Cadillac. Come on in and join us.

There will be no more diesels in the US. So you can forget about that one. Expect our T-Roc substitue to be powered by the 1.4

Anyone who thinks Ford is even in the same dimension as Lexus in regards to reliability is delusional.

Yeah, who would want a drop dead gorgeous N/A V8 GT with bullet-proof Lexus reliability and resale when you could get a slightly quicker, slightly cheaper E Class that is devoid of character and looks like just like the base $450 lease special C Coupe that every secretary aspires to own to show she's made it??

Quite possibly the most generic and anonymous appearing car (relative to it's price) I have ever seen. Wow.

This will be much shorter in length than the current Atlas. Think Touareg size.