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Maybe it is true, doesn't really matter to me. My point was that people were burying Accord and saying it is not sold as much as it is used to, but yet it is still number 2 in sales even without any fleet sales.

Just buy a scanner, they are not very expensive. Much more convenient to have it for the long run.

Yes, plenty of Altimas and Camrys in rentals, same as Fusion and Malibu

Well, in your list Accord is still number 2 in sales, and that as Drew mentioned without any fleet sales.

Your link is just for December 2016, I just googled "midsize sedan sales 2016" and a number of links gave similar numbers

1. Aston Martin Vantage V8 2. Ferrari F430 Berlinetta 3. Land Cruiser (slightly used can be had for $60k-$70k, use the rest of the money to turn it into overland/camping rig) 4. Corvette Grand Sport (new, for autocross and track, use the rest of the money for tires and maintenance ) 5. 1965 Ford Mustang restomod

Not 100% sure but 2016 Best Selling Mid Size Sedans sales are as follows: 1. Camry - 233,832 2. Accord - 201,300 3. Altima - 197,644 4. Fusion - 170,840 5. Malibu - 132,145 6. Sonata - 125,036 7. Opima - 70,847

Now you sound simply ridiculous

About 10 or so years ago I got "to drive a supercar gift card" with one of the companies that do that sort of thing. So the choice was between F430 and Gallardo. I choose F430 because I always have been much more a Ferrari fan then Lamborghini, I loved the drive even if it was too short but after I drove F430 I got to sit in the Gallardo. Lambo's interior looked cheap and crappy compared to the F430. So I would choose F430 even if I haven't driven one, but after I sat in both I can say definitely F430.

@oldshurst442 I drive now G37S sedan which is fun enough and fast enough but in about 3 years I put 100k on it, so I am over 130k miles right now and problems might start creeping up soon. I do autocross occasionally but I don't want to do track days in my daily driver. So after I am done with Infiniti I am going to take my dad's Mazda 6 which is economical, while still fun to drive and then buy something fun for the weekend, autocross and hopefully track.

@A Horse With No Name everybody has it is own needs and wants. I drive almost 100 miles each day and put around 30k miles a year. After, driving my current car for the last few years I came to a conclusion that next time around I need something cheap and economical as daily driver and then I will get a weekend/fun car to keep and not to destroy in 3-4 years.

I personally, would get Mazda 6 if I wanted something economical but fun (and I will get 6 Sport from my dad in 1-2 years to use as a daily driver), or if I wanted more power then probably either V6 Accord or Malibu with 2L turbo. I

Unless, you need 4-door sedan, and there are better choices then Altima for $30k

I would only go for Miata Club which is about $30k, and that's puts it very close to either new Mustang GT with some nicely timed discounts or slightly used Mustang GT premium. Anyway, personally I will not be in position to get either one for at least another 3-4 years, so ...

Motor Trend just had Head to Head comparison between hardtop Miata and BRZ. They mentioned many times how they enjoy these cars on twisty roads much more then any other high dollar/high horsepower cars they drove recently. I guess most people misunderstand joys of driving cars like that. To be honest, personally, when the time comes I probably will choose Mustang GT over the Miata, I would love to have them both but there something magical about having big V8 snarl. Plus, having back seat for kids and bigger, more comfortable car are serious considerations.

Actually, besides the wing it is perfect for the autocross: better suspension, brakes and sticky tires. And they make only 500 of these, so makes sense.

Just FYI their EyeSight system considered one of the best if not the best out of today's active safety systems.

I am sorry, but you must be drunk if you think previous Subarus looked exciting. They were always boring looking cars with jacked up performance. AT least now they have decent interiors compared to previous generations.

Agree on 'women's car", my wife recently told me that she likes it when we saw one on the road which was a surprise to me since she usually likes different style of a design. Looks like a very nice CUV, might have consider getting CPO for my wife but we need something a little bigger with a third row.

Here is the statistics for the longest lasting cars currently on the road, it seems majority trucks are American but cars are Japanese: https://blog.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-over-200000-miles Trucks/SUVs: 1 Ford Expedition 5.7% 2 Toyota Sequoia 5.6% 3 Chevrolet Suburban 4.8% 4 Toyota 4Runner 4.7% 5 GMC Yukon XL 4.2% 6 Chevrolet Tahoe 3.5% 7 GMC Yukon 3.0% 8 Toyota Avalon 2.6% 9 Toyota Tacoma 2.5% 10 Honda Accord 2.3% 10 Honda Odyssey 2.3% 11 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2.2% 12 Ford F-150 2.1% 13 GMC Sierra 1500 2.0% Cars: 1. Toyota Avalon 2 Honda Accord 2 Honda Odyssey 3 Ford Taurus 4 Chevrolet Impala 4 Toyota Camry 4 Nissan Maxima 5 Toyota Sienna 6 Honda Civic 6 Dodge Grand Caravan 6 Subaru Legacy 7 Nissan Quest 7 Subaru Outback 7 Toyota Prius 8 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 8 Subaru Forester

I don't know how many of you guys have kids, but one of the main reason to get a newer car is safety. It is been proven many times that cars older then 10 year old are not even close to the safety level of the more modern cars. And I am not even talking about electronics, structural strength is on a complete different level. My wife drives our family car and to me personally it is important that she would have car no older then 10 years, preferably newer.

You are right, I just compared used CTS which is loosing about half of its value in 2-3 years to an Escalade, Escalade is loosing maybe 15-20 percent.

I think sometimes it makes more financial sense to buy used or CPO after lease vehicle and keep it for 6-7 years or longer instead of buying new and keeping it for 10. The loans are slightly cheaper on the new vehicles but the amount of value some vehicles loose in 2-3 years is pretty significant.

Yes, by a very low margin while Fusion is significantly worse then Camry and Accord going by the index which I admitted is better. The whole argument started when you said that in other countries they tend to buy domestic cars more. The situation is different due to government involvement and due to places of engineering and manufacturing. Don't understand me wrong I am all for buying US made products, I am engineer and my livelihood depends on manufacturing and engineering staying in US, but Toyota and Honda invest a lot in the US and it is simply not fair to disregard that.

Don't compare apples to oranges, I compared Accord,Camry to Malibu and Fusion. Also it is not 13 places, there are three cars in the first place with the same rating, eight cars in the fourth place with the same rating. The difference in rating between Malibu and Accord is 1.5% (82.5 vs 81). If you gave an example might as well stick to it. I also would like to add that if it would not be for the competition in the US market we would still be driving $h! boxes US automakers used to build not that long ago.