CaddyXLR-V

Another thing, we had an old Pontiac 6000, and even that was sporty for it's time, and the 4cyl was surprisingly quick.

I owned a Mazda 626, it was not sporty. It had body roll, and was not fun to drive through the curves. My passat was 5x as much fun as the 626 was through the curves. I had a base 4cyl Grand Am that was quicker, handled better, and had less body roll than the top 626 V6. The 626 is a good car, but it was not sporty. The RX8 is boy racer. Your right when you say the GTO is not like it.

The Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 are sportier than the G5 and G6, but they are hardly performance cars, and they have nothing to match the G8. The GTO was much nicer than the RX-8. I would say the brands are about even. A few is all that's needed, and the ones that are not performance cars should go away. Pontiac is still closer than any other GM brand to being a dedicated performance brand. For that matter, Pontiac is about as close as any brand to being a dedicated performance brand, and still has a solid foundation to build off of. I guess my point is, there is no 100% affordable performance brand currently, and would be the perfect niche for Pontiac. Mazda's weren't always the sportiest cars available, but no one accuses them of being tricked into 626s or 160hp Mazda 6s because they though they were performance cars. I owned a 626, so I know exactly how sporty they weren't.

But that is not solely a Pontiac problem. Every GM brand suffers from it. There are no other affordable brands that only sell performance cars. Mazda has minivans, Nissan has the Versa, Mitsubishi has plain econocar Lancers. Making Pontiac purely an affordable performance brand is new territory for any company, and I don't think Pontiac's previous mistakes should mean the brand will always only be Chevy clones.

Yes. Just kidding. Toyota gets an unfair reputation because of the Prius also, but in their case it's a positive reputation. Just because the Prius is good on gas doesn't mean all other Toyotas are good on gas also. But for Pontiac, just because GM keeps cloning junk and putting a Pontiac grille on it, that doesn't mean the brand is all bad. Pontiac has had a lot of high performance vehicles compared to other GM brands. Fiero has good performance for it's time, then the Turbo Trans Am, the SC 3.8 L Grand Prix long before any Chevy got the engine, and the Buicks with the engine were heavier. The Solstice, the G8, the GTO. Chevy always only had the Camaro and Corvette. Their SS line doesn't compare with most of the Pontiacs I just mentioned. Even the quad 4 Pontiacs had more performace than their GM counterparts. If GM would just stop with their knee jerk reaction of cloning Malibus Cobalts or Cavaliers and sending them to Pontiac, Pontiac would be a much stronger brand.

You're allowed up to 11 miles over the speed limit in most cities with the speed cameras. I hope they go away soon. There's talk that someone is drafting a law to get rid of them, I don't know how true it is though.

Well the highway I'm referring to, there are multiple "slower traffic keep right" signs posted But regardless, if your going the exact same speed as the person on the side of you, and there is not heavy traffic in front of you, why not just get behind the person your on the side of, and allow everyone else to pass if they want to? I know for a fact people here do it on purpose, just so you can't pass them.

So based on the results, GM will keep 1/3 of Pontiac's sales when they kill the brand. That is probably a high estimate, since this is a GM fan website, and outside here people have even less loyalty to GM than we do. Looks like GM will be losing a lot of sales.

It's not only done to be a jackass. To me, being a jackass is being on a 2 lane highway and pacing the person to the right of you when they are going 10 under the speed limit, and you have a row of 20+ cars behind you that are backed up waiting to pass.

I believe in AZ there is a law that states if someone flashes you, you are required to move over. Police here will flash you for you to move over as well.

Yep, I was fooled into thinking my GTO was sporty. But your right about Nissan, I could see myself in a new 350Z if there was no more Pontiac.

I just can't bring myself to like the Chryslers though. I drove my brother's Charger, and I didn't like it. They all seem too tall, and truckish for my taste.

Ford wasn't on top forever. Buick doesn't have to be either. Lexus came to the US and competed with established, historical brands, and took the sales crown in less than 20 years. GM should work on doing the same with Cadillac. Cadillac should be GM's top brand across the world, not just in the US.

Ford has historical factors in the US also. Look at where they are now.

Yes, and that's why they should sell it to them for as much money as they can get. You do realize there was a time before Toyota sold a single car in the US right? There was a time when Lexus had zero sales also, and is now leading in sales of luxury vehicles. That was what, 20 years ago?

The only problem is, the govt is most likely going to be giving GM it's DIP financing, unless GM can find financing somewhere else.

Nope, no change at all. GM will continue to spiral down the drain.

It would be preferable for me to buy a car that way. Dell was built on build to order computers, why not cars? They could have a tester at a Chevy dealership for people to test drive. And it would essentially cut out the middleman, the dealership. All the money saved from not having to pay commission and maintaining a dealership would be profit for GM. It would be perfect if Pontiac were to be a niche brand, but isn't feasible for full line brands like Chevy.

I think it makes more sense too. Cadillac should be GM's luxury brand in China, not Buick.

New scenario, make Pontiac and GMC direct buy only. Order it online, and it gets delivered to your door once built.

Too bad for you. My GTO is the best GM vehicle I have ever owned or driven, and drives like what an American car would have driven like if they haven't lost their way so many years ago. To me, it's a perfect blend between American and European driving characteristics. I would expect that the G8 is the same or better.

BMW. No thought necessary.

Yes, because that would make too much sense. I don't actually think it will happen, but I would be happy if it did.

If I can't afford a BMW, I wouldn't mind a VW. There's also the people who can afford BMW's but might buy a G8 because it offers almost as much for a lot less money. They might buy the BMW if the G8 wasn't an option.

Well if Holden gets a piece of Alpha, and keeps Zeta, Pontiac could have a full line up of each. midsize coupe sedan and wagon/hatch, and fullsize sedan coupe ute and wagon.