surreal1272

That does not change my point at all regarding the “best or nothing”.

That doesn’t change his core point. I personally think it’s more of a joke to have a luxury car maker like Mercedes delaying their seven figure hypercar repeatedly over the last three years.

The Venom GT is, in fact, a production car of 24 copies and is real and right now unlike the still vapor-ware future car from Benz.

It is true that the 3rd party car stereo market is shrinking quickly because of these new models with integrated controls for HVAC and such. Then there is the design aspect of these newer models cars. There are options, of course, but they are getting far fewer by the year. It's even worse for these models that have just one big ass screen (like the new Escalade and the Benz hypersreens) stretching across the dashboard.

True but I was just trying to provide one quick example. There are other sources out there, I'm sure.

Drew showed some good examples but look on places like Crutchfield. The big issue now though, is cost because it no longer involves just swapping out a head unit and harness. There are more steps, more parts, and more money involved now. There are also exceptions to this rule as some models just can’t be done like that at all but they are more common then you realize.

And you missed the point by a country mile.

As you have pointed out time after time, no one is cross shopping those two and it should be pretty obvious as to why (and no, it has nothing to with brand cachet). And if that BMW is so damn great at that price, then that makes the $300K Ferrari even more laughable but again, that wasn’t your goal here. It was to move the bar after your previous arguments were called out.

Not if you know what you’re doing and assuming the dash can actually accommodate an aftermarket head unit. Alpine makes several models that resemble the floating tablets in most cars today. Metris makes data link harnesses that will fit most new cars with HVAC controls built in but you have to do your research on them and they may not be available with all models. I know they make some for my Flex but I have to urge to swap out currently and it wouldn’t be cheap to do it anyway.

@smk4565 Since this about Tesla and not the Vette, go ahead and defend the fact the Model S had to be heavily modified to get an unofficial run to beat the Taycan, with a time that really wasn’t much better than said Vette. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoblog.com/amp/2019/10/20/porsche-tesla-nurburgring/

Thanks for not disappointing me with the bar moving. In any other comparison with Tesla, you constantly point out 0-60 but when I show you that a base model Vette runs the EXACT same damn time as the Ferrari 296GTB, you change the criteria yet again. Just stop this non-sense already. And neither the Ghibli or Alfa can touch the Vette so thanks for proving my point about what you get for $100K from Italy lol. With the future plans for EVs, that could be a possibility although not entirely necessary.

And you are conflating his argument and putting words in his mouth. And I have already shown you where the Vette runs neck and neck with one Exotic (The 296 GTB) while being DOWN 300HP. (identical 0-60 time, for example). And GM doesn't need build a $300K car when their $100K car already punches the big boys in the mouth with just their BASE MODEL VETTE (a fact you are clearly ignoring here). What happens when the Z06 or ZR1 (with a possible EV connection) comes out? What will you long list of excuses be then? BTW, that $300K Ferrari is really a $200K Ferrari but we will just skip that little fact too. I mean, it should be more pressing to you that GM can get as much performance out of a $100K car than companies like Ferrari can get out of $300K car. Like Olds said, what would you get from Ferrari for $100K? Go ahead and answer that one before moving that bar of yours again.

All those words yet you ignored the core parts of the argument. Like Benz, that name really doesn’t mean Jack when it gets run down by “lowly” Chevrolets (unless they’re seven figure vaporware cars).

You're right. It's lighter, it has 300 more HP, costs $200K more than a Vette, yet runs the same 0-60 time (2.9 seconds) and a dam near 1.4 mile so what exactly is the point of the weight savings, the CF panels, and the 300 extra ponies? Oh yeah, that name that runs side by side with a sub-$100K Chevrolet. In other words, outside of the name you value so much, it offers no real upsell over the Vette unless you just really really love putting out engine fires. I wouldn't trust Ferrari with a D cell battery much less an entire EV. And there is no way in hell that Ferrari can make a sub 4,000lb. EV without massive compromises.

30 years ago, I might have felt different but my current design tastes just do not jive with what Ferrari is offering. Okay so that might taking it a bit far.

See, I just don't see that "beauty". I'm with Balth. That "beauty" is a mess several different design cues going on with most of their cars these days. Just way over done and no real cohesion to me.

Still a mess but to be honest, I have never been crazy about any Ferrari in the last 40 years and even if I had the dough, I wouldn't buy one because I don't want to invest in cases of fire extinguishers.

Same.

True. SuperScope produced these and while they are not technically “high end”, they do the job that is asked of them. Getting them for a steal was merely a bonus lol.

(Does his best Tim Allen "grunt") Same but yes, the prices are just obscene. On a side note, I did find a pair of old school Sony floor speakers at a thrift store (about seven months ago) for $16 (for the pair). They work flawlessly so I put them with my semi-old school setup in my workshop. Notice where they are made. Didn't know Sony ever even made anything here until I did a little research. It was back in the 70s when Sony was just getting into the US market and they used a company called SuperScope to build and distribute these speakers (SuperScope also made cassette decks and other gear for Marantz at that time). The speakers are noting fancy but they sound pretty damn good and you can't find these cheaper than $250 (with shipping) on Ebay. That's a "win" for me.

He only said that BOTH (at the same time) should not be allowed. Clear distinction there. Hell, if a I buy a $50K home theater system from an electronics store, they don’t slap their store stickers on the receiver and speakers. Only car dealerships think they are that special.

Here’s something to consider as well. Will Ferrari still be making those kind of profit margins when they go EV? Not likely. Also, this whole conversation got sidetracked by a certain someone bringing up Ferrari in the first place. Here’s what needs to be considered. Large profits or not, it doesn’t change the fact that the Vette competes with the like of Porsche and even some Ferraris. It has been like that for a while, as a matter of fact. With the Vette going mid-engine, those slight gaps in performance between it and the rolling fire traps have closed and that is just with a BASE ENGINE VETTE. That is something brand cachet snobs need to consider before acting like only a silly name matters.

Posted that very link yesterday and my original statement stands about a fool and his money parting for a rolling firetrap.

Again, a concept he can’t seem to grasp.

It also never occurred to him that folks might prefer the Vette over the Porsche because the Porsche is overpriced nonsense and their savings can go to better things in life. You can buy the Vette and a fully loaded pickup (for the non-Vette stuff lol) and still undercut a 911 that will at least give you power seats (the base $129K 911 doesn’t even include them). Point here is clearly pandering to brand cachet does indicate being smarter or better than non-cachet folks.