GMTruckGuy74

Oh wait, I see their game plan - they're taking the "let's ignore it and it will simply go away" approach.

Sixty8, you need to update this thread with your latest acquistion :AH-HA_wink:

We had a 2003 Buick Rendezvous CX FWD (leased 1/03-8/05). A couple of stupid warranty repairs, but solid otherwise. It had the optional 3rd row, so it was nice to be able to take 6/7 people out all in one vehicle. The downsides? The 3rd row ate up most of the cargo room, so we couldn't go on a shopping trip with a lot of people using this one vehicle. The 3.4 liter V6 was "okay" when only the 3 of us were in it, but load it up with people or a lot of cargo and the engine was a dog. The tires that came stock sucked and needed replacing at 28,000 miles. And the silver gauges with the light green backlighting was hard to see on very bright, sunny days. Other than that, I found it to be a very nice riding vehicle, came in handy during our move, and was comfortable to drive on long-distance trips. I did drive a '04 CXL Plus with the 3.6 liter V6 and felt it was quite an improvement over the 3.4. If ours had the 3.6, then I could probably deal better with the lack of cargo room when 6 or 7 people were in the car at one time. My wife misses it (I like the Envoy better!). Congrats to your parents and wish them good luck for me throughout their ownership experience!

It wouldn't happen to be a 1994 Buick Roadmaster Estate station wagon, would it? How'd I know? I saw it mentioned in your signature! Pictures? Details? Inquiring minds want to know!

I am a former subscriber to both Pontiac Enthusiast and High Performance Pontiac. I occasionally pick them up off the newstands, but will keep an eye out for the latest issue of PE. I contemplated subscribing again to PE, as I found it to be the better of the two, but haven't done so yet.

How much are you willing to bet? Does General Motors still restrict GMC models vs. Chevy models? I know back in the '90s, GM allowed only XX% (I'm remembering 15%-20%, but not sure if that's correct) of pickup production to GMC and Chevy pickups got the rest. If that rule still exists within GM, then it's safe to say that Chevy will get the majority of Lamdba production, which will steal sales from the other three. How many GM owners don't shop within GM? When I sold BPGs, I had many customers cross-shopping the new 2000 LeSabre with the new 2000 Impala. CARBIZ, who works at a Chevy dealership, has stated many times that he's had to send customers to the GMC dealership to find the Acadia/Enclave. The only plausible scenario I can see is that many GM owners will not consider Saturn, as there may not be a close enough dealer to them. But if Chevy has a Lambda, it will be cross-shopped against the other two divisions.Again, I don't care if GM allows Chevy to have a Lambda - BUT it must be different from the other three that already exist. Chevy should have the Lambda MINIVAN. No problem there. Chevy should have a 5-passenger Lambda if they must have a CUV. And it has to look different too. Why have four of the practically same vehicles - something we here at C&G can't stand when GM does this (for example - Uplander/Montana SV6/RELAY/Terraza; TrailBlazer/Envoy/Bravada-Rainier/9-7x). I understand that Chevy already has the 5-passenger covered with the Equinox, but what if someone wanted a larger 5-passenger CUV? Ford offers the 5-pass Escape and the 5-pass Edge... why can't Chevy aim at this cmpetition rather than with it's own sister divisions? This is the problem with General Motors - Chevy has to have it all, and if they don't have it, they (dealers) cry until they get it. This is another reason why I will not support Chevy and buy one again.

I wish I could be the optimist like you on this one, but we know how GM and it's Chevy dealers are. They want whatever any of the other GM divisions have that sells. And they also want to be the only ones that offer it from GM (see the new Camaro, the HHR & the SSR, the Corvette until the XLR came along, etc). If they get a 5-passenger only, they'll cry to Wagoner until he caves in and gives them a 7-passenger too. Then less Saturns will sell, as someone already pointed out that the too-many-exisiting Chevy dealer network will flood the market with their version. GM does not equal Chevy!!!! Then again, Mr. Saturn Brand Advocate, maybe you learned/saw something from your tour of the Delta plant that you can't share with us yet??? :AH-HA_wink:

I think GM needs to fill the Envoy/TrailBlazer BOF void with something based on the Canyon/Colorado platform. Not everyone out there wants a car-based, front-wheel drive SUV. While I thought the old Jimmy/Blazer were small compared to their competition (Explorer, Grand Cherokee, 4Runner), I realize the Envoy/TrailBlazer really do step foot on the Yukon/Tahoe market. I really like the Hummer H3 and think it's a perfect size. You can offer the Equinox/Torrent (future GMC anyway) for those seeking a smaller FWD/AWD crossover, a GMT-355 BOF SUV for those wanting a smaller, 2wd or 4WD SUV, the Lambdas for those wanting a larger, FWD or AWD car-based crossover, and the Yukon/Tahoe for the full-size, 2wd or 4wd truck-based SUV. Much like Toyota's lineup - a SUV for every taste. Okay, but the problem here is that Chevy will not keep their Lambda a bottom of the barrel, value-based crossover only. There will be LS, LT, and LTZ versions, maybe starting at $25k but going all the way up to $42k - just like the other three Lambdas. If you equip/option the Acadia/OUTLOOK/Enclave the same way, they're all pretty close in price. And thus you have one stealing from the other three. Do you really think someone won't price shop each GM division, rather than Chevy vs. Ford vs. Toyota? And the dealers will stock some base (LS) models, but a majority of them will be fully loaded LT3 or LTZ models. Don't believe me? Go to any Chevy dealer and look at their Avalanche, Tahoe, and Suburban stock and see how many "base" models are available. Chevy dealers are no different - they make more off the fully optioned models. Yeah there'll be the few $25k "newspaper ad specials", but there will be more loaded ones. And that will steal from the other GM divisions until GM cuts the back (remember the Uplander, Montana SV6, Relay & Terazza minivans???).

I won't repeat what has been stated many times already. Rather, I'd like to add some commentary: SRX - Nice in theory, but bad in execution. What's up with it's ride height? I think it has more ground clearance than my '05 GMC Envoy 4wd! Caddy's crossover station wagon sits too high for my tastes and IMO would look better lowered to the ground more (plus I see them mainly in shopping malls and the like - is that gorund clearance necessary for speed bumps?). I think I was more comfortable in my neighrbor's Ford Freestyle (not saying much) than in the '07 SRX I sat in at this year's Philly Auto Show. I like it, but would still consider a truck-based SUV or other crossover (Lambda) over the SRX any day. XLR - It's a halo car that still attracts attention at the auto shows. Given the extra $80K, I'd have one of those in my garage instead of the SKY (don't get me wrong, I love my SKY - but the XLR is awesome!). It is time for the XLR to get the same A&S treatment that the new '08 CTS received to bring it more current and up-to-date. Escalade lineup - If you think the DTS became the modern-day Fleetwood, boy are you wrong! The Escalade is the 21st century's Fleetwood reincarnated in truck form. Many of you don't like these trucks being in Caddy showwrooms, but living in Southern NJ I see a ton of them. I can only image how many more roam the streets in California, NYC, Chicago, and any other major city in the US. STS & DTS - I love the DTS, as it still embodies the Caddy heritage. The STS is percieved as an overpriced and larger CTS. Of course it would only make sense to combine these two and offer the SLS instead here in the states. But I like the exterior looks of the DTS more (and I agree that the DTS-L is not a pretty sight). Just my :twocents:

Ideally, the Chevy Lambda (Traverse) should be a five passenger version, have the body styled as such and not just a regular Lambda minus the back seat, and compete against the Ford Edge, Mazda CX-7, and the upcoming Dodge crossover. This would make it truly unique in the GM crossover lineup and would not compete directly with the Acadia/OUTLOOK/Enclave market (since they are 7/8 passenger models). But we all know that won't happen, and the Chevy Traverse will still be a 7/8 seater and will only cannibalize sales from the other three. That is until the OUTLOOK sales fall below expectations and GM decides Saturn doesn't need the vehicle anymore because more people buy the Chevy version vs. the Saturn. Or the GMC Acadia - you make the pick. I can't see GM selling four versions all the same. The Chevy has to be different from the rest, otherwise GM is just taking two steps BACKWARDS again.

+1It's easy to browse the lots when you take your car in for service. I don't have as much free time as I did a couple of years ago to window shop, so I take advantage when I take the vehicles in for servicing.

Today, I saw unrestored/original condition (most needing work): 1958 Chevy 38 Apache, 1958 Chevy Biscayne 4-door, 1957 Chevy 210, 1956 Chevy 2-door, 1980's Monte Carlo SS, Something old hidden under a car cover... -- all at one place, a repair shop in Lumberton/Burlington County, NJ

1 (R3 only) 2 5 Good job!

In the town right next to me, on the way to work, I pass a yellow 2007 Saturn SKY Redline. Other than mine and supposedly a red base SKY in the town on the other side of me, still very few SKY sightings. The other morning on the way to work, a yellow (you could tell it's the original paint) 1988 Pontiac Fiero Formula. I see it later on in the day parked outside of a local car mechanic, which incidentally has several '50s/'60s cars (need to pull into the lot over the weekend to see what exactly they are). Now that the weather's nice, I'm seeing all sorts of convertibles - yellow, dark teal & red SSRs, late model bright red Viper, 2002-2004 black Ford T-bird. Acadia's are multiplying on my local roadways - red jewel coat, carbon metallic, silver seem to be the popular colors so far. Two OUTLOOKs recently, both silver - on XE and one XR (seen in Atlantic City on Tuesday). No Enclave at the local BPG dealer yet. Classics galore on the weekends. Usually going the opposite direction, so it's hard to tell at times what they are. Mostly ID'd early-to-mid '50s Chevies and Fords though.

I checked into this back in 2004 when the wife's compnay became eligible for GM Supplier pricing. Not only do I not get to tranfer the earnings I already have (they become "lost"), I have to start over from the beginning and build back up. Of course having all those earnings didn't help with the purchase of the SKY, and even if I could have used them with the AURA lease, I wouldn't have (I used $1500 in earnings to get the Envoy lease) because the monthly lease was below what I was expecting anyway. However, in 14 months (or less - come on GMAC Lease Pull-Ahead Program!) I may be buying my next vehicle rather than leasing and those GM Card Earnings just might come in handy. Of course that means I can't use the wife's Supplier Pricing (not accepted with the regular GM Card Earnings), so we'll have to see what kind of deal I can negotiate w/o GM Supplier Pricing and how the earnings compare to the GM Supplier discount. If I do end up using all of my earnings, I might as well then transfer over to the GM Extended Family Card and start over. Or not.

I voted Business as usual - a big honkin' car with gas guzzling V8s will still be around - but replace the word "car" with "truck". It seems likely that a Lambda vehicle will replace the Envoy in 2008 (family vehicle) and the Sierra again will be put on the back burner. I think I'm going to buy the Lambda (most likely the Acadia, but who knows?) and as soon as it's paid off get the Sierra I've always wanted (do you think a regular cab, sportside model will be offered in 6-10 years?). Of course the way gas prices are, who knows if I'll ever get a full-size pickup???

BV, you stole my submission! +2

Link doesn't work! Please check it out.

I like my 2007 AURA better... hopefully the new EPII AURA looks nothing like the ones shown here (except the red Vauxhall). If it does, Saturn will definitely be losing me as an owner in the sedan market.

ZL-1, the production Opels out in the shipping lots do not have those side-marker lights. I thought it was mandatory in Europe? The taillights are different on the Opel/Daewoo from the Saturn. The best way I can describe it is that the top 1/3 is all silver (not sure if it lights up or not), whereas the SKY's is all red and lights up. There is a rear foglight on the Opel/Daewoo, it's incorporated in the rear backup light (split in half, white & red).

That was the point I made to Andrea. I told her that I realize that Saturn's goal has always been to attract foreign car owners (Toyota, Honda, etc) and anybody that would never consider a GM vehicle. However, now that GM recognizes Saturn as a division (see those little GM badges on each Saturn vehicle?), why rule out current GM owners. I pointed out to her that not only did I buy my SKY in April, but in November I leased an AURA (that replaced another GM division's vehicle). I also said that I have quite a few earnings accumulated, that my Envoy lease expires next year, and my earnings and where I can spend them will influence my decision (seeing as how we may buy our next vehicle). I told her that I can either have three Saturns in my driveway, or two and another GM division gets my money. I wasn't cockey about it, but I wanted to get my point across. She said that she understands and agrees, but it's in Jill L's hands to make the decision and she'll go back and communicate it again that the buying force wants to be able to use their GM Card earnings.

The fender-mounted side marker lights are not included on the Opel GT or Daewoo G2x... I was going to ask why, but I overheard an engineer say to another Kappa owner that it has to do with European regulations (about the Opel GT). I wanted to ask more about it, but got sidetracked and after taking the pics of the cars in the lot, remembered but it was too late!

Yup, it's an Opel and that's why I took it. There were quite a few Opels parked out in the lot, some were out being driven around the test track and many were being assembled throughout the tour. The Daewoo on display inside of the factory was the only one visible - there were none on the lines being made and it was mentioned during one of the presentations that the Daewoo G2x officially goes into production in June. Apparently some of the attendees asked the event planner to post the names of the factory people responsible for the day's events so that they could send them written "thank you" letters. I plan to do that and ask if they could pass the word on to other GM plants to consider doing this type of event for owners. Many people there were first time owners of Saturns and/or Pontiacs - and they left very impressed by GM (I've heard a few SKY owners tell Andrea that Saturn is on their shopping list from now on). Imagine if owners could get a tour of the Lordstown plant (Cobalt/G5), Shreveport plant (Canyon/Colorado), or any other plant? It would be a great experience, and the free word-of-mouth advertising the GM would get would definitely be worth it. I'm not a big fan of unions (and being a teacher in NJ, I belong to one of the bigger state unions), but if you could see the pride in the UAW workers as they assembled the cars, the many thanks they gave to us owners for keeping their plant going/buying a Kappa/buying a GM product, and the enthusiasm they have for the Kappa cars (many are owners too), then you can understand why it's important to have happy workers assembling your products. One plant employee I spoke with on the line said he's been there 28 years. I asked what carline he started with and he said "Chevette". I asked what car he liked most out of this plant and he said "the current ones because they have style and are in demand and it's a great feeling building a car that people absolutely love". Boy, doesn't that sum it all up?

Knightfan, it was a great experience. Other than GM employees here, how many of us can say we saw the birthplace of our beloved car/truck? I wish I could see more plants, but there aren't too many more around the NJ area. It was a very exciting day. I hope GM starts doing more of these for the other passionate owners of their cars/trucks. This is the second GM factory I've been in (3rd automotive plant all together) - the other one was the defunct Trenton (NJ) plant at their ceremonial closing (for all employees and the public) back in 1998. Most of that plant had already been cleared out of the machines that could be used elsewhere, and the walk-around area was very limited (plus no guided tours). So it was great to see how the Kappa cars (Saturn, Pontiac, Opel & Daewoo) come to life. The tour was titled "Mecca Tour 2007" on the plant ID badges we were issued, so a lot of us over at skyroadster.com are hoping for a "2008" tour, in which I may bring someone from C&G with me if they allow it next year. Some other cool things: *Plant engineers issued to all Kappa owners clear 3M protective strips to be placed under the hood where paint scratching can occur. This is a running change made to all factory-built cars and they wanted the current owners to have the protection too. *Plant management allowed workers to come outside to address issues on current owners cars. One person in particular has been experiencing problems when lowering the top. After speaking with a plant engineer, a worker and the engineer went outside, made some adjustments, and viola! - the top works perfectly now. *One-to-One chats were held throughout the day. Most of the engineers were asking what we liked, didn't like, and had problems with our cars. They wrote stuff down, made adjustments, and thanked us for our input/feedback. *Saturn & Pontiac Marketing people were present. I spoke with Andrea from Saturn Marketing about licensing issues and The GM Card earnings. She said many dealers and customers are upset about not being able to use their earnings on Saturn vehicles. Saturn was not expecting such an interest from current GM owners and Jill L. was not moving from her position about accepting the earnings. However, with such feedback already received, the marketing dept is reevaluating the position and hope to get Jill to change her mind. If anyone has questions, please ask. I'm sure I forgot to mention some things.

And to prove I was there (thanks to another skyroadster.com member that posted this pic)... top row, first gray one parked next to the black or dark blue Solstice is my SKY (parked head-in). For some reason I can't get the picture to show here, so click on this link to check it out: Kappas (and mine too!) Believe it or not, that whole area was filled with SKYs and Solstices. After the tour ended, many people seemed to have left right before lunch. My son and I ate, then went outside to look at all the cars and most had left. The pictures I took were around 2:00 PM, as many people were getting ready to leave. I forgot to take a shot of mine parked among the sea of Kappas, that is until I found the one posted above! And yes PCS, my tour guide mentioned to us the fact that "there's about 1 million square feet of unused space in this plant". Another guy in my group said "Why's that?", to which my tour guide said "For future product" and nothing else. One thing I forgot to mention is the way the cars get transported around the factory - something I thought was really neat and still sticks out in my mind. When the frames/tunnel/floorboards are being welded, they are placed on a wheeled pull-cart (think a really big Radio Flyer wagon). Next they are put onto these computer controlled SmartCarts that seemingly drive themselves around the plant. No human is near them, they just glide from station to station. They follow a magnetic tape stripe on the floor. Eventually, when the cars come together with wheels they are transferred to the "skillets" - large, flat pieces of metal that carry the car along as workers assemble parts and components. As I did mention, when the skillets need to move to another area, they do it overhead on these conveyor systems. These large lifts/elevators move the entire skillet up and down. It's really an interesting thing to watch - I'm thankful that my tour guide took the time to point this out.