Snate

Yes...although I'd rather have a lighter/smaller car that didn't need a V8 for good performance.

Sorry I don't recall every saying anything for certainty. I would be very shocked if Civic SI sales were a bigger percentage of overall Civic sales than SS Supercharged Cobalts are of overall Cobalt sales. Good for you...too bad I was talking about the entire dorky Civic line. The SI is ok...the rest is bad to worse. Feel free to disagree.

The SI is a very small part of Civic sales...probably even less than the SS Supercharged is to Cobalt sales. Still doesn't solve the ugly part though.

Exterior looks like a shrunken Altima and Maxima combined.....not attractive. The "trucky" looking interiors are starting to get old Nissan....pretty much all Nissan interiors look identical.

How many Camrys went to fleet too?

The lions are a team that every year just sucks. Most every other team has a good year or two now and then...the lions haven't had a winning season in a long long time.

From my experiences with my mom's vibe...the less Toyota parts bin they use...the better.

Or maybe Toyota knows how to design a car with good EPA ratings but completely average real world figures. It's rather peculiar that no other manufacturer (foreign or domestic) has been able to duplicate Toyota's EPA ratings. Hence why I raise the :bs: flag. Compare the 2006 Accord with the 2007 Camry in fuel efficiency...I even think most people agree Honda is a better engine maker.

Thats a pretty good reason why I'm leaving the Chicago area in March and moving to SW Florida.

Denial? http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...47/pageNumber=7 Ohh...wow...21 MPG...man thats some real efficiency there. I mean damn...it beat the 300 by a whole 1 MPG even though the 300 only has a 4 spd and weighs 200 pounds more. I guess I should just get rid of my Cobalt now and go buy a Corolla...cause man Toyota's always get what the EPA says.

Let's play a game...it's called "Predict what MPG the Camry will really get.

:lol: I'd like to think I have some taste.

MT used to be alot better. I don't really think they rip on Domestics much...its more that they just gush over japanese cars....most of the time it is undeserving.

There are very few cars that are really "Class-Leading"...from any manufacturer. All depends on what you are going for. Everything is a trade-off.

Wow...I've driven my Cobalt for almost 17K miles and the lowest average I ever got was 27 MPG...and that was a few weeks ago when it was freezing cold. I drive half tollway (70-80) and half heavy traffic. My brother's grand am with the 2.2L auto can crack 40 on the highway...so I'm gonn have to say :bs: to 22.5 MPG.

Congratulations Toyota...you've made an already ugly car...even uglier.

Wow is that an ugly car. Current Corolla shrunk with the new ugly Camry mug. The hatchback thing is just wrong. Then again design was never a Toyota strongpoint. The interior is drab and spartan...and if its anything like the Scions, the interior quality isn't anything to get excited about. I don't like the current Aveo but the new one looks light years ahead of it. It loses most of the "cartoon" look that the current one does as well as the echo and yaris. The interior definitely looks to be better than the Koreans and the Yaris. The only thing I'd be worried about is if Honda brings over a competitor...because they usually make high quality cars....although the new civic is questionable.

I think alot of people buy the Prius for the image. Oh look we are being green by driving a Prius. Meanwhile people that are really concerned about the environment are doing more effective things like carpooling and not driving everywhere. We are such an image conscious society...once the celebrities started showing up in Prius', everyone wanted one.

Hmm...I'm not really surprised. I read the MT write up on the civic a few months ago and they loved it so much they might as well have opened up the gas tank and stuck their...well you get the idea. but COTY? Hardly. All it is is an (uglier) variation on the compact car. It isn't anything groundbreaking...and almost every other car (foreign or domestic) that deserved the award more. The Mazda3 was the last car to really raise the bar in this class and it didn't win COTY...why should the Civic...which falls short of the bar to begin with?

Slim to None

Toyota is a company that makes a lot of money not making cars people want...but making mediocre cars and convincing people that they want them. It's been a very long time since Toyota has really had a class leading mainstream vehicle.

CR is pretty much a joke. Read it for about 5 minutes and you can see plenty of inconsistencies. The best are the identical cars like the Matrix/Vibe where the japanese one will suddenly be much more reliable and higher quality.

Hmm...didn't know 2 extra doors could affect reliability. :rolleyes:

Hahaha...the only car I could think of is the SC430...what an ugly terd of a car.

I saw a Civic coupe today. Better than the sedan...still not attractive in the slightest. That car could clearly be the best in its class in everything (and no its not even close) and I still wouldn't buy it...even at 10K. It's a frumpy, ungainly, nasty looking little car. It's what happens when Japanese cars try to "break the mold".