surreal1272

Be careful @oldshurst442 . You’re going to use up all those down votes, and all because you don’t seem to like the facts when they come to your door.

Interesting that you are calling him out for hypocrisy but not the other poster who has wasted almost two pages now screaming about free market and customer choice yet he has a problem with those two concepts when it came knocking on his door. And that’s why I’m still laughing.

I’m laughing at your hypocrisy. You and restaurants like yours had a choice. Remember saying that over and over again? “Choice”? That is a result of the “free market”. That is all. You may now downvote this too.

Same can be said for you since now you don’t support the middle man approach because it affects businesses like yours. Also hypocritical because it flies in the face of your “free market” mantra you have been going on about for the last page and a half. Funny how that works.

Well guess I called it. Damn near a page wasted already.

Yet they sold every single one that they made. Guess that fact never occurred to you. And their worst selling SUV still sold more than anything out of Germany, mainly because the biggest player doesn’t even have an EV SUV yet. Again, BS. Despite the struggles of their sedan sales overall, they sold every V series and Blackwing model produced so you are lying about that too.

There's the part I was looking for. It's "coming" but not before they released a low demand ugly ass sedan. Again, your criticism of MB does not equal the criticism you have bestowed upon literally everyone else. And congrats. That EQB will have a whole 26 miles more range as the equally paltry ranged Jaguar E-Pace. The "best or nothing" right?

And your proof of this is what exactly? The EQS? It has no gasoline equivalent. The closest thing to it is the S-Class and it sure as hell isn't that. The EQB? That will start, minimum $50K while the GLB starts at $38K. Why are you lying?

@oldshurst442-Again, you have skipped over everything that has been said. That is why this is last response to you regarding it. Sincerely, Someone who has been in sales and negotiated such things damn near his entire life.

Maybe he'd like to explain this from the FTC website (not directly written by the FTC, for the record). It was written in 2014 but it is still spot on in relation to the dealership monopolies and their lobbying power with various state governments. Again, if it is a "free market", then why are dealerships fighting the very principles of the same free market? https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/2014/04/who-decides-how-consumers-should-shop

Stop the patronizing BS Olds. I know exactly what I am saying and others do to. If you want to ignore everything that runs counter to what you are saying, then that is on you but stop expecting others to buy into it. Please though, by all means, continue downvoting PHOQUEING facts.

Exactly. Not even close to an apples to apples comparison.

And if it’s such a “free market”, then explain why the mainstream brands have lobbied various state governments in an effort to block Tesla from selling in their states via the direct buy method they made popular, only to see one of the past complainers (Ford) do the EXACT same damn thing in China? That is not “free market”. That is trying to maintain a monopoly but go on thinking that folks have had real choices in auto buying.

Because “free market” derp derp. Skip the fact that folks have been conditioned to think this is an acceptable practice, for the last half century or so, by folks using that same excuse since day one. And all the down voting in the world does not change that fact.

All of this! I’d like to add that all this talk about “customer choice” is also an illusion but some folks clearly are not ready to hear about that and I’m not going to waste two pages of this thread trying to convince them of it. They can believe whatever they want. Doesn’t make it true though.

Given that I’ve actually worked at more than one dealership and dealt with countless others in multiple states, I will continue to stand by my past and current statements regarding dealerships and their less than honest practices that have Jack squat to with a “fee market” economy. This isn’t the first time Ford has had to do this and they are not the only company to go through this with their respective dealerships. Just skip the part where Ford said that these practices hurt their brand image (and it does). I am not going to go into a long winded post about why I think it is the way it is because I have already covered it before here, many times. And some folks wonder why a company like Ford decided to forgo dealerships and do the “buy direct” approach in the ever growing Chinese market.

Interesting. I’ve heard all this talk about dealerships and their “fair market” practices yet here is Ford jumping in to make sure they continue to be “fair”. I was under the assumption that this was an accepted practice by folks who constantly tout the need for dealerships. I mean why would Ford have to take preemptive action if these dealers were being so honest about their pricing as it relates to “fair market” values? (sarcasm wholly intended here for those who want to take this a certain way) https://www.yahoo.com/news/ford-threatens-dealers-wont-send-171821933.html

Using your logic, I will ask you this. Why did your favorite brand put out their first real EV for the low demand sedan market? I mean, all this talk about what the market wants now but I have YET to see this level of criticism directed toward your favorite brand, who decided a sedan was the best idea for their first real EV.

Except it is not and I am not just talking about size and powertrain, when you consider what you get with each. Honestly, the little SMK routine is tiring so unless you have some info. on a mid-size puck up with an 8 ft bed (your "original" gripe), I'm done with it.

Good grief man. It's also not a FULL SIZE pick up. It is far closer to a Ranger size than an F-150. Now show me ONE current mid-size truck with an 8 ft bed. Then, you have a legitimate gripe. Don't bother David. It doesn't need to have an 8 ft bed to begin with for the reasons I mentioned above. Just a dumb argument at this point IMO.

The off roading crowd tends to hit the desert trails outside of the summer months. My cousin never took her Wrangler out on those trails during the summer. Whether it's EV or ICE, you know what that desert can do a Jeep or a Hummer when you're off the beaten path in 110-115 degree weather, You are missing the bigger point here. They already have commercial applications (in the form of vans) and the writing is clearly on the wall for the pick ups here unless you just want to keep nitpicking on something you never planned on buying in the first place. A successful launch and supporting successful sales will determine whether they actually go to market with one. Sorry but I just don't the reasons for all the nitpicking.

Which is fine too. Arizona folks will dig it lol.

How much does a Unimog weigh? Close to 30K lbs, I believe and they are known for rock crawling. Give the Hummer some proper ground clearance, maybe a special off road package, and it can handle it. Narrow trails aside, it should be more than capable.

And you know this for a fact? Edit: Robert already answered it. Vans are already out which probably signals commercial pick ups in the future.

Most likely way too heavy but I'm pretty sure they will try to market as off road lol. That sums it up best IMO. Like Ford, GM chose to put out the most popular cab configuration (four door crew cab) to "test the waters". If it is successful, then more will certainly come. It's just common sense to me.